Cher Public

Broadcast: Der Rosenkavalier

Here’s where you can discuss La Fleming‘s penultimate Marschallin, as these nice young people seem to be doing.

  • Camille

    Habe Dank!

    Unfortunately, I’m hopelessly behind as thought it started at 7:30 so must listen for now to Sirius. Polenzani singing his aria now.

    There is going to be a lot of weeping on Saturday, I’m guessing…..

    “Mein lieber Hippolyte…ecc.”

  • Camille

    Jungfer Marianne, bitte!!

    Can you explain exactly which accent Ochs is using to make his character so funny? I’ve heard it used somewhat similarly before but this guy really works it for all it’s worth, haha.

    Danke, if you should see this. I’ll try to remember to put it on your thread somewhere.

  • Camille

    Here’s that thread from last Tuesday for Der Rosenkavalier, in which I am chatting with no one, sigh, it seems. If Jungfer would care to ‘splain us something about the funny accent Groissböck’s employs in his take on Ochs, it would be very interesting and we’d be obliged. Perhaps Batty Masetto could fill us in, but I think he is more a Münchner rather than Wiener, nein?

    • Kaziranga

      I’m here Camille. Listening on KING.fm out of Seattle from Seward Alaska. Why can’t I ever find these broadcast links?

      • Camille

        Wow--KING can be heard THAT far North? That’s surprising.

        I don’t quite know what you mean about “finding broadcast links”, sorry.

        Well, thus far this is sounding very, very well and like no other retiring woman of 58!

        Remembering that it is also Garanca’s farewell to this role. Perhaps a tad prematurely?

        It may well be that many are at the performance or the HD so there may not be much of a chat.

        • Kaziranga

          I’m listening through the Internet stream on Classical King fm.

          • Camille

            Oh of course. You don’t have a local radio station which carries the Met broadcasts, then? Once Inlooked through anlist of the stations broadcasting and I had to admit it was fairly jawdroppingly absent in many places.

            • nalasa1

              That is happening a lot. Big cities like San Antonio and Houston TX both dropped broadcasting the Met.

            • Camille

              Houston, home of one of the major and wealthy opera houses and, I think, of Texaco as well? That Texaco dropped the MET after an association of seventy plus years was so dismaying and disgusting. I’ve never bought gas from them again!

            • John

              Insane to let that happen. They maybe charge the stations too much ?

            • nalasa1

              It is up to the local classical station not Texaco. Here in San Antonio the station said that people are too busy on Saturday afternoon! BS!!!!

            • jackoh

              “too busy.” What are classical music listeners doing down there on a Saturday afternoon, rustling cattle ?

            • Kaziranga

              Yes it is and I’ve written to the Met about it. Somewhere in the briar patch of DRM and the transition to “apps” based broadcast we have made it very difficult for some people to “discover” Opera How many of us bush babies first heard Opera through the Saturday afternoon broadcasts which used to be on the radio and now are somewhere in cyberspace?

            • Kaziranga

              Camile, we just got a local radio station and are enjoying it while it lasts.

            • Camille

              Ja, ja!

  • Camille

    Although this last Tuesday sounded fine, it’s apparent they have naturally stepped up their game considerably. I do so hope the emotions won’t overtake either Garanca or Fleming in these ultimate performances of theirs: even as solid professionals with years of experience, it is a challenge.

    I hope fletcher is able to meet up with some parterrians in the house!

  • CwbyLA

    Renee Fleming is retiring this role on top! Way on top. What a fantastic performance.

  • Southern Gal

    i am just at the end of act one… i had computer problems (thanks Microsoft) and couldnt get sirius to load in the browser… sigh.. finally it loaded and i started about 115 … so just ending the first act. renee usually doesnt evoke emotion in me but this last scene with garanca hit all the buttons.
    cant imagine the trio…

  • Camille

    Wondering why this maestro doesn’t really pull out the Wiener glissandi in the Walzer? Levine used to do them if I recall correctly.

  • John

    Is that pic from a different production? .no epaulets today

  • Nelly della Vittoria

    Overall I’m not too displeased to be listening without having to watch and make sense of the confusingly-directed Act 3 again.

    • Camille

      What was confusing about it; I’ve heard several complaints now about how entrance of Marschallin is not grand enough, etc. oops, here it comes so until
      Later. !!!

      • Nelly della Vittoria

        Staging couldn’t make up its mind about whether Baron Ochs wants to seduce Mariandel or not (If not, the plot makes no sense, but presumably it gets a few laughs in the moment to have him running away?) and whether Mariandel’s in pursuit or not — everyone’s saying one thing and doing another, and it looks confused rather than clever.

        • Camille

          Okay, and thanks for the advice as I’ll bear it in mind when I go to hear it on Wednesday.

          Now comes the inundation of applause!!!

          Oh, does Mohammed shoot someone in the end?!?

          • aulus agerius

            There is no Mohammad. Sad

            • There certainly was, he just WASN’T a black child done up as a kind of mascot, but an adult male who was present in a couple of scenes.

            • Camille

              That is what I understood but also heard somewhere--Mary Jo?--that he shoots someone at the end, indicating the end of that Belle Epoque world and all that fol-de-rol we’ve just witnessed because it’s just too fun and sinful to
              exist.

              Which brings this to mind, I actually turned pages for a teacher looooooong ago—who had been to the world premiere of Der Rosenkavalier, als Kind. I wonder what he would have thought of this time travelling of Mr. Carsen’s?

            • manou

              Camille, Mohammad does appear at the end, very drunk and staggering about (not retrieving anything). The sound you heard was the noise of a photographer’s antiquated flash.

            • Camille

              Oh, was that it? Someone,
              Somewhere— reported that he took a shot at someone as if sent off to WWI. That’s peculiar.

              Won’t see it until Wednesday and am looking forward greatly and gratefully to it as they had their collective “A” game, pretty much.

            • manou

              Will you be seeing an “encore” of the HD? You are in for a treat. Do report back please!

        • I have not seen the production but my understanding is that in this staging, Ochs is full of bravado but when it comes down to actually seducing Miriandel, he’s timid and cowardly. That sounds in keeping with the refreshing take on the character which Carsen and Groisböck have presented.

          • southerndoc1

            Exactly. That came across very clearly.

          • aulus agerius

            I don’t think that’s so clear! He comes to a bordello after all knowing full well he had an assignation. He is freaked out by her FACE and her aggressiveness which exceeds his own and appears dismayed at his loss of performance ability. That was my take on it. [GG was quite appealing physically in act 2 in contrast to Och’s repellent manner]

      • southerndoc1

        “complaints now about how entrance of Marschallin is not grand enough”

        Enter center back, unimpeded walk down stage, spectacular floor-length Blackglama, new blond coiffure --

        yeah, they left out the elephants. And Schwarzkopf’s fucking egret feather.

  • Camille

    Fletcher! Please report in your experience in house!

  • Camille

    And if you are left hungering for only yet more Richard Strauss, the American Ballet Theatre is going to give its performances of his ballet “Schlagobers”, a premiere for them, starting on May 23rd.

    See:

    http://www.abt.org

    for more detail.

    I don’t know this ballet at all well but do look forward to the exceptional experience of hearing and seeing it. The ABT is giving other ballets with an operatic reference, fyi.

  • aulus agerius

    I enjoyed the HD in Charlottesville…..tears in usual places I think at the sheer beauty of the sound but Hofmanstahl might get some credit too :-)
    It took me most of the first act to get used to the voices not originating from the singers’ mouths! MP was a disappointment to me -- I guess I’ll always want to hear Big Luc.

  • One aspect of this production that I don’t remember being mentioned in any reviews is that the act 3 set is a perfect parody of the act one bedroom of the Marschallin. Same kind of red patterned wallpaper, same ground plan (especially once the Murphy Bed came down into the room), same kind of chairs set around the room against the walls, big portraits on the walls just like the Marschallin’s (although VERY different in subject matter!) and same wooden parquet floor. I would love to know why Messers Carsen and Steinberg (Director and Set Designer respectively) made this interesting choice.

    • hai lui

      I recall seeing a review -- of the Carsen production, not sure if this one at the Met -- that suggested the parody is to draw an unflattering parallel between the Marschallin’s sexual practices and those of her cousin. I will see if I can find it and post the link if so.

      • hai lui

        “Carsen’s brightest idea was to envision the brothel scene as a parody of the chic boudoir from act one, suggesting that Ochs’ planned date rape and the lopsided power dynamic between the teenaged Octavian and the Marschallin, who’s old enough to be his mother, are equally disturbing.”
        From
        A Star Is Boring in ‘Der Rosenkavalier’ at the Met
        By James Jorden
        http://observer.com/2017/04/der-rosenkavalier-met-opera-review-renee-fleming-richard-strauss/

    • manou

      I attended this “Insight” evening at the ROH:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X8r0k7U7TM

      which is very interesting if perhaps a tad long -- Robert Carsen talks about the production (from about 55 onwards) and does discuss in some detail the set in Act III mirroring Act I. Worth a look if you have time -- Carsen is such an erudite and engaging director.

  • overstimmelated

    What was with the Ja, ja? It sounded like “Yeah, ja”!

  • Luvtennis

    I am very happy for Ms. Fleming’s success and it’s wonderful to have Garanca back at the Met!

    That said, I find Rosenkavalier unbearable -- musically and dramatically and culturally. I wonder if anyone has considered the conundrum of Carsen’s third act? In modern America (at least most of it) up until recently, Octavian would have been high-fived by his friends and male relatives and Resi shunned or mocked. In today’s world, both would be candidates for interventionist therapy or at least an episode of Predators. So what exactly is the point that Carsen is trying to make? That Resi is as sexually corrupt as Ochs? That they are equally sympathetic?

    Or maybe my distaste for the work makes me unfit to comment.

    • Luvtennis

      And am i the only person who thinks that the opera would be a great deal more honest if Resi were a closeted gay man who was forced to give up his young bi sexual lover. Proust. Proust. Proust. Think about it. The opera just rings false to me.

      • Armerjacquino

        Why would that be ‘more honest’? Genuinely baffled.

        • Luvtennis

          Why? Well, if you think that the narrator’s affair with “Albertine” was an honest description of a heterosexual affair, then I must say we have differing opinions of Proust. For me it is clear that the Rosenkavalier is the same kind of sleight of hand. Resi was Hugo. I mean -- COME ON -- Hugo wrote a libretto about a 30 something woman and her 17 year old boyfriend????????? Bullshit. The entire story makes no sense as a tale of heterosexual love. Resi could have had any number of 20+ year old males as her lover, Armer. The story only makes sense if Resi is really a MAN.

          Amerite?

          • Rick

            I don’t think your arguments about why the story doesn’t make sense as a heterosexual love affair are very convincing. What is the point of saying that the Marschallin could have had any number of 20+ year old men as her lover? Presumably you could say the same of the later Madame Macron when she met young Emmanuel. But for whatever reason the later Madame Macron preferred young Emmanuel -- just as the Marschallin preferred 17 year old Quinquin…

            • CKurwenal

              Quite -- I too can see no reason why their ages, both absolute and relative to each other, make the story implausible as a heterosexual affair.

        • Luvtennis

          And I realize that the convoluted -- post weekend in NOLA -- prose could be what baffled you!

          Apologies!

        • David Rosenbaum

          Isn’t there also some implication in the first act that their affair might have been a matter of convenience, too: Octavian might have been around a lot? None of the Marschallin’s servants and lackeys seem to think it’s odd that he’s always around, which might imply that he was often around even before the affair.

    • rapt

      I’m far from an expert on this opera, and only heard, not saw, the production (though I’ve read of the parallel settings). But I’d guess that the idea is to draw out the parallel situations of Ochs and the Marschallin--both acting out of motives in some way meretricious, both punished for it (and incurring their own punishment)--in order to heighten the significance of the contrast between them: the Marschallin accepting with grace (and maybe even half-intentional in having brought about her punishment--which, incidentally, saves Sophie from a fate like her own) while Ochs remains boorish and self-pitying to the end.