Talking head
Our Own JJ discusses Maria Callas and her Voice Of Perfect Imperfection with NPR’s Lynn Neary.
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Comment #1: UGH!
Interesting little item, congratulations to JJ. One thing that strikes me seeing the post here is what an extraordinary photo that Turandot picture is. It’s become such a familiar pic to opera lovers that I haven’t looked at it properly for ages, and it really is powerful stuff from both subject and photographer.
Priscill Queen of the Desert comes
to mind ……except they were more tasteful . Mrs. Bucket would never approve .
“Priscilla” Queen of the Desert -for
those who will immediately pounce
on the missing” a” {as in horses arse} to show intellectual prowess.
Wladek mentioning Priscilla Queen of the Desert…..so much 70′s/80′s screaming queen bar tragic material left behind in the city’s gutters frustrated, scratching themselves they ‘didn’t get ‘something for the night’.Drown your sorrows, dear! The mascara’s running and THAT frock,too……really!!
Go on, wladek list your own favorite singers and I am sure there are adequate number members of parterre willing to take a scapel and lacerate each one of them too.
I can think of many other singers unlike Callas, that had a face and a figure like the back of horse or a double decker bus, male and female.
What I think is worth dicussing, is the notion that Callas’ voice was aided by having an exceptional high ‘cathedal arch’ in the top of her mouth. Note the number of singers that have tried to imitate ‘the Callas sound’ and then, have come to grip.
I always find it a intriguing thing – how at times, any of us make rate a singer less than another singer. Years go by and re-listening to some item they performed, we can be dumb struck. At last, we appreciate their Art for the first time. In the past week I have listened to Sutherland’s Lucia di Lammmermoor and compared it with the Roberta Peters/Jan Peerce version and the early Callas version. As time goes on, one realises each version has its own apreciations .’Each has its place in time and that of the continuing history of recording’. To discard any, would be the act of just another supercilious foolhardy opera queen making ‘another tired NEW statement’.
Harry – Interesting point -but
for myself it is about the score
and who does the least damage
to it while serving the composer
and out of ego not themselves .
Having conducted and worked with composers for many a year
one is made quite aware that
the composer wants you to perform what is written and not
what you think he should have written so you the diva can
shine before the crowd. When
first conducting Berlioz my
research took me to letters by Lipinski famous violinist of the time commenting on exchange
between well known diva and Berlioz,seems diva wanted to
“interpret” her part but Berlioz
replied “Just sing it as written ”
I am not interested in the
Callas Norma as I am interested in the Bellini Norma,if she pulls
it every which way under the guise of drama , just to suit’her limitations then we are not hearing the true Norma ,but
a clever ego at work .and yes
must put it aside until a singer comes along who will sing Bellini .Of interest was Vickers
and Grimes – the composer ruled out his interpretation and
never mentions Vickers in connection with the work and
the great success he had with it
He walked out on the performance he came to see …
So what is the audience applauding – the Vickers Grimes – or the Britten Grimes .
A lot has reached the same stage as those dreadful singers
giving us their interpretation
of the national anthem,yowling their way through it under guise of great emotion since
singing it as Scott Key wrote
it is beyond them .Its the age
I suppose -wouldn’t it be novel
if the stars once in a while served the composer? A famous diva once informed
Toscanini she was a star -he
informed her the only stars he knew of were in the heavens.
You wouldn’t want to hear Britten’s Peter Grimes—he wasn’t much of a singer. The point being that the myth of textual supremacy is such an ahistorical view of opera, and western music generally. Surely Berlioz’s objection to a singer doing what singers of the day routinely did is notable only for its novelty, not its authority.
In the sense that “the two shall be one flesh” I HAVE heard Britten’s Peter Grimes and in the names of the Holy Sanctified Sts. Wilbur and Orville of the Airways I never want to hear it again.
wladek :In regard to Britten’s Peter Grimes it is easy to see why Britten wanted his own tame vision of it, to stand as the benchmark. Based of Crabbe’s The Borough, Britten eschewed the strong inferences of sexual ‘goings on’ contained in the plot. Britten stands as that British composer full of denials about himself, whilst drawn like a magnet to so many opera plots with ‘rather hot’ sub carrier themes (to the British anyway) if people delve. He was the epitome of the dour stiff upper lip, to a tee. The more a director brings out what Peter Grimes the opera, is really saying, the better……….Britten’s ‘grim’ music can just play along. I suspect a lot of people sense this re-occuring thread of psychological dishonesty throughout Britten’s works. Never being brave enough to really bite the bullet and come to gripes with the subject matter he used. Bennie’s apparent motto ‘Never,never say out loud… something’s, a little queer even if it is oblivous’. Once created, an author’s work belongs to the World to be interpretated…. and sometimes they do not like what other people stumble onto. It is too late to retrieve what they overlooked and did not want ‘to reveal’ about themselves into the bargain. They do not own a ‘personal profile’ copyright on themselves, though I am sure many creators would like to.
Hahaha, nice try.
I only pointed out your howlers because it amused me to see you make them in a post criticising someone else’s spelling.
I admire your attempt to style it out, though.
LittleMastermiles-I have heard the tenor for which this was written, an odd voice yes, but
nevertheless the sound Brtten wanted -the comments were that with the original point of view the content became
to dark for a then opera audience to deal with -everything was pushed to a “normal” tragedy as anything
that might suggest other than normal would not make it to the Met .Vickers then pushed it to become “everyman” which Britten hated ,but it brought
fame to Vickers. Incidently
Lipinski who was concert master for Berlioz went on to
write that the singer who wanted to sing it her way was
dismissed and a singer who performed the work the way Berlioz wrote it was hired .
POUNCE ! Pounce-pounce-pounce! Pounce. POUNCE ! !
Sorry, I really want to reply to wladek above, but there’s no reply link there….
I think you’re being so pretentious it’s unbelievable – Britten pretty much HAD to write for Pears – but we have no proof that that’s the voice he wanted – it was the voice he HAD. (and I can’t imagine harmony (no pun intended) at home if he’d written all those roles for someone else!) Composers who write for only one specific voice may find themselves not being sung. I think any composer is happier to get their music out before the public more often, whether or not it’s exactly the same every time. Purists wear me out!
figaroindy-not to get into name calling, you write from ignorance
of the matter .Pears in his letters
as notes to Britten -stresses
how the opera should get away from the poem and the homosexual/and worse implications, if it ever is to be performed .Britten does eventually
take out much of the lines that
would cause trouble with censors -since at the time homosexuality as an act was a criminal offence .
They both were in a sense outside the law at the time and Britten wanted to emphisize
this very much in the opera ,
the outsider , the homosexual
every thing the normal crowd throws rocks at . Pears was more
practical in knowing the work would never see the light of
day if this was too evident .
The school teacher was introduced mildly , a redemption motive and to calm any uncomfortable feelings aboutt
homosexuality the opera audience might feel . Vickers
Christian stance on homosexuality is well known -so it is pushed further.That is why
Britten hated it , since in a way
the opera is about Britten being
the ousider. Times have changed
and young people can’t imagine
such terrifying times for people
like Britten.Gay to day gets a yawn – back then in England it got you in jail or worse and that
is what he was addressing .
I’m not intending any name calling – and I wasn’t referring to Peter Grimes only. I’m saying that Britten loved Pears….and wrote for him…but I can easily see that the role could have been a baritone or a countertenor if that was Pears’ voice. He wrote FOR Peter Pears…so that was the voice he wrote for….if he had not been attached to Pears, I imagine the “sound Britten wanted” as you say could have been something else entirely! You seem to be intentionally misunderstanding me…I wasn’t discussing Grimes or the sexuality in it at all….just your comments on the “sound the composer wanted” being the be-all, end-all of the situation.
On the subject of Britten and Pears, I can highly recommend the Aldeburgh concert that Opera Depot have featuring Pears, Glossop and Vishnevskaya in operatic excerpts with Britten at the piano.
Pears is as acquired a vocal taste as ever (but his ‘Il mio tesoro’ is undeniably stylish and technically accomplished) but it’s Galya who is the reason to buy. She sings Cherubino’s arias in Russian (!) and then an electric Nile Duet with Glossop, followed by the Letter Scene and final duet of Onegin, an opera in which I think she is unmatched.
Britten’s playing is a revelation too, especially in the Verdi.
oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god. I’ve been waiting for someone else to pick up on it, but nobody has. Please please please, I can only hold out just so much longer.
OK, Betsy – just to keep you from exploding….
Yes, Wladek has again given another example of the improper use of the apostrophe (more English English, one wonders?)…..
As we’re discussing the ass of a horse, thus it is possessed by the horse, and would properly be termed “horse’s ass.”
Let;s not be too pedantic about correct English spelling all the time. A slip on the keybroad can produce funnny things. Still, I think we are conversant and intelligent enough here, to decipher what a word should have meant or ‘have been’.
figaroindy – In polite English
society “arse” is permissable
when referring to a
body part , only while
in the drawing room -”ass” may
describe someone or their actions
and is most negative I therefore
used the word “arse” in a benign
sense not wanting to offend the sensibilities of the reader,especially Betsy who must
learn to controll herself or else
the neighbours (US neighbors) will talk .
Again, demonstrating that sangfroid four which I am famos among any numbeur of neighbours, I shall sit quietly in my corneur while someone else does the honours.
Truly, wladek, you are amazing….I wasn’t correcting “arse” (and thank you, but the English society lessons aren’t needed – both my grandparents sailed to America from the British Isles in 1920 – we’re quite conversant with the proper terminology)…I was correcting your use of the apostrophe. You keep ignoring the errors you can’t “explain away.”
Which brings me to Harry – while I agree with your sentiments, and normally am not a grammar/spelling policeman….wladek was being “overly superior” in his original posts (may have even been in a separate thread) and correcting someone else’s spelling/grammar while making his own errors, which is where this began. Also, while I totally understand slips of the fingers – knowing where and when the apostrophe should be used is not quite the same. Wladek simply didn’t use it….if he’d hit the wrong key, I’d have had less to say. (of course, I only pointed it out in this thread to appease Betsy…but nonetheless, I’ll stand up for myself!)
Well, Harry isn’t above an extraneous comma (or extraneous inverted commas):
“Still, I think we are conversant and intelligent enough here, to decipher what a word should have meant or ‘have been’.”
Quite right armerjacqino – la Cieca should congratulate JJ on a very interesting article and we can continue to marvel at a photo that is iconic as it is beautiful.
Now hang onto your hat – the harry kid with his bb gun will be out any tick of the clock…
I must disappoint you Ruxton. Surprise, SURPRISE! Wonders never crease . I love that Turandot photo of Callas. I have the vinyl (DMM) EMI box set on which that photo in glorious color, is used. I have CD highlights of that Callas Turandot from a ‘private’ Europon label……and I have the latest remastering of the complete version of the same pefomance in the 71 CD Callas box! So there!!!!
Not so far though, as one fella I once knew. Who traded according to his personal whims, this or that released edition of a complete Callas opera and then went ahead to buy another copy. Why? He was searching and wanting to possess the most beautiful picture ‘edition’ as well, of those used of Callas, for each of her individual releases.
As you say Harry “wonders never cease”- but “disappoint” me? – never! Ever since I read the book “Learn To Love Your Disease” – I’ve appreciated you more and more….:)
Oh thank you, Figaroindy, but let us give the benefit of a doubt to Wladek, whose posts I rather enjoy. He may have actually been referring to two or more horses with but one ass (or “arse”) among them. I should rather imagine, though, that the phenomenon of a common equine cloaca would be of interest to veterinarians around the world. We’ve never experienced it here in the provinces.
Perhaps there is no apostrophe in the Queen’s English….oh wait, I guess that theory’s already screwed….or it would be the Queens English…and then would sound TOTALLY different (why’d youse pahk de cah over dere?)
(No offense to people from Queens intended at all….please forgive my phonetic Archie Bunker attempt!)
I hasten to point out that there could also be the queens’ English – which I’m sure many of the readers on Parterre are QUITE familiar with, so I’ll not give an example!
figaroindy, you are masterful.
I speak the queens’ English rather well; after all, I learned to speak it more than 30 years ago.
It just shows you don’t get out enough ______
where is La Cieca’s distinctive accent from?
Among others,
(Both of them.)
And just a soupcon perhaps of
La Cieca, I have always thought of you as Coral Browne, so I’m glad to see you included her picture. But you’re far to young and beautiful to be Mary Boland; how about Paulette Goddard?
Je trouve l’accent de JJ tres distingué.
Ah, Rosalind Russel. One of my very great favorites from this era or any other. A good model for you, Cara Cieca!
It’s a shame that they made contact with my hero, Conrad L. Osborne, and didn’t spell his name right.
Speaking of getting things wrong, it’s a shame Neary, introducing JJ, referred to him as the editor of “parterrebox.com.” I hope NPR listeners are bright enough to google to get here.
I love Toscanini but I wish he had used singers that would service the composers -for example, Verdi- better, like Callas. As much as I love Toscanini, Hell-of-a-Nervy gets on my nerves.
Valkyrietta- Toscanini who had
the approval of Verdi because
as Verdi wrote “he follows the score as I wrote it ” used only singers
that he could bend to his will-and
could sing the way Toscanini
felt Verdi would approve of…I doubt
Callas would have made it -he was
unrelenting in speed and accuracy.
And it was his interpretation that
counted not the singers. It would
have been a battle royal and Callas would have lost ,so powerful was
Toscanini-ruthless , and cruel
not to be questioned , no conductor
to-day knows that power . I was
just starting out in the field and
had the rare privlige of attending
the studio concerts and rehearsals
and recordings before tape came in .Think spools of wire .