parterre box

53 comments

• Lindoro Almaviva says:

  OK, I am confused: Statements like this make it seem like this edition is in the future: The forthcoming Kaye edition

  Then statements like these are made When I first saw the Kaye edition in 1988

  So is it forthcoming or is it already done and available for performances? I have to confess that I am not up to date with Hoffman as I am with Mozart and bel canto. Seems to me that the recording with Alagna is based on the Kaye edition, so why is it still been described as forthcoming?

  What’s the story? Can someone please explain?

  on December 5, 2009 at 3:52 PM
• Quanto Painy Fakor says:

  Until an edition receives a formal publication after which one can actually purchase in stores or online publishers only provided perusal and rental materials for companies that produce and record their editions in progress. Mr. Kaye recently explained on Opera-L that the Hoffmann edition is “being published by a trio consortium of Schott, Boosey&Hawkes and Bote&Bock” and it is a co-edition of Michael Kaye and Jean-Chrisophe Keck.

  on December 5, 2009 at 4:23 PM
• Cassandra says:

  I’ve done Hoffmann three times and done three completely different versions at each theater. Some with editor added music, some with may variations of recit., some with company added notations, etc., etc. It is a total fucking nightmare. The worst recently for me was one with a ton of clunky dialogue in bad French that took forever to learn. Any singer who signs a contract for Hoffmann knows in advance that whatever “version” one might be doing will most likely not be what one did before. It definitely sucks, but comes with the territory that is Hoffmann.

  on December 5, 2009 at 7:37 PM
  • Alto says:

    You remind me of the friend who used to sing Fledermice all over the world. She knew it in German and two English translations. Keeping them straight was a major intellectual feat.

    on December 6, 2009 at 2:42 AM
    • Cassandra says:

      When I asked a friend of mine -who is going to be in the upcoming Carsen film mentioned here- which of the many versions would be used, they just rolled their eyes, threw up their hands and said, “I expect to be told when I arrive.” That’s basically the standard response concerning Hoffmann.

      I remember reading recently that a score in Offenbach’s hand was recently found in a basement drawer at the Garnier, was it? It had been thought to be lost in a fire, but it had been moved? Apparently, it was “complete?” This was about three years ago. I’ll have to look it up, but I recall having a conversation with an intendant about whether or not a final edition could be made out of this score that was discovered.

      on December 6, 2009 at 1:12 PM
    • Cassandra says:

      Okay, so I found this quote from Musical America, 2005, but I can’t find the full article:

      “The manuscript for Tales of Hoffman, thought destroyed in an 1887 fire at Paris’s Opéra Comique, was discovered on a shelf at the Palais Garnier. It won’t hit the auction block like Maria Callas’s jewelry, but thanks to the Internet, scholars will have online access to it.”

      So, what exactly is happening with that? Does anyone know?

      on December 6, 2009 at 1:17 PM
      • amoebaguy says:

        From my understanding, the score recently discovered is the conductor’s score used at the premiere. Unless I am wrong about this (and someone please correct me if I am) and if this is the case, it would be an interesting discovery but not one that would solve any problems about authenticity. The version performed at the premiere was a bit of a mess. Leon Carvalho (impresario of the Opera-Comique) made sweeping changes at the last minute, cutting all of the Muse’s music (and distributing the dual role of Muse/Nicklausse between two performers – something that continued to be done frequently during the 20th century – note Cluytens’ second EMI recording [where Nicklausse is sung by a baritone!]), cutting a good deal of Nicklauss’ music (including the brilliant “trio des yeux”) and cutting the Giulietta act entirely. The venue of the Antonia act was then changed to Venice (in order to use the sets already constructed for Giulietta), and the “Barcarolle” was sung off-stage after Antonia’s first exit as a serenade (“Ugh! More music!” Crespel exclaims – or something to that effect). The Hoffmann-Giulietta duet was converted into a duet for Hoffmann and Stella, and “Oh dieu de quelle ivresse” was moved to the epilogue, sung by Hoffmann not to Giulietta but to the Muse (this last change, familiar to most of us, remained in place up unto and including the final Choudens edition). In the epilogue (originally Act 5, but now Act 4 in this version), Hoffmann talks about the diabolical Giulietta and mentions a bit of her history, as the prologue’s reference to “trois maitresses” had not been changed. Obviously, this version does not represent what anyone (especially) Offenbach would consider or would have considered an “authentic” version, and steps to restore the Giulietta act were engaged in immediately by Guiraud.
        The conductor’s score, then, while a fascinating document – as it gives us hard evidence as to what was performed at the premiere – does not really help that much in debates about “authenticity”.

        on December 6, 2009 at 3:26 PM
      • Cassandra says:

        Well, that is very disappointing if true amoebaguy. At least in my dim memory of 2005 I recall it being referred to as Offenbach’s official autograph of the final score as coming from the performances at the Comique, but if it contains what you describe, then that’s clearly not the case.

        on December 6, 2009 at 3:41 PM
• Quanto Painy Fakor says:

  on December 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM
  • Quanto Painy Fakor says:

    Above, Ingo Metzmacher comments on the authentic final scene of the Giulietta act of Offenbach’s Tales of Hoffmann: [Metzmacher:] “Now there is a clearer conclusion to the Giulietta Act, and what I find even more important is that the Giulietta Act only now has the same weight as Olympia and Antonia. [Narrator:] Giulietta’s new music certainly lies astonishing high for a mezzo-soprano [...]. [Metzmacher:] Good! Really good! Unbelievable!” Unfortunately, the mezzo-soprano cast as Giuletta there had a little trouble with the high C that Offenbach requires in the final scene of the Giulietta Act.

    on December 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM
• Harry says:

  If Offenbach intended the main women characters to be sung by the same woman…the casting problem today is like ‘well if you cannot find Brunnhilde to last one of the Ring operas….just cast a multiple and change each singer when you notice one after another, is exhausted’
  At least Sutherland did sing all roles in performances.
  Dramatically the same woman should be cast….it really makes the opera ‘work’ – via recordings..

  on December 6, 2009 at 1:01 AM
• Baritenor says:

  One of the reasons the Kaye edition is so useful is that it serves, if not to solve, then to simplify the multi-casting dilema. With the rediscovery of Guiletta’s coloratura aria (which is lovely, by the way) it makes the distribution (if the acts are performed Olympia-Antonia-Guilietta) Coloratura/Lyric/Coloratura rather than Coloratura/Lyric/Dramatic. That’s a whole lot easier for one voice to encompass.

  on December 6, 2009 at 2:34 AM
• The Vicar of John Wakefield says:

  Who is this Gurewitsch person who penned the following tosh in a piece about Our Own Mark Padmore and Katie Mitchell doing WINTER JOURNEY?

  “There are few laughs, if any, in Schubert. “

  on December 6, 2009 at 7:02 AM
  • Quanto Painy Fakor says:

    http://www.beyondcriticism.com/blog/

    on December 6, 2009 at 11:09 AM
  • Cassandra says:

    Gurewitsch writes for the Times.

    on December 6, 2009 at 1:19 PM
• Camille says:

  My manifold thanks to all for this discussion of The Hoffmann Problem, with particular thanks to amoebaguy, sympathies to Cassandra, and a snort of glee to Graciella Scusi for the witty Kane edition remark!

  As it happens many times for me, this discussion has provoked a memory of the long-forgotten Contes I heard in Seattle in, I believe, the spring of 1990, which is soon enough after the above-referenced ’88 Los Angeles one to make me wonder if this version was imported from their same production. I can’t recall much about it now except it had the wonderful ‘Dieu de quelle ivresse’ apostrophe at the end, which was mighty effective.

  Anyone here know what was done? Just curious.

  on December 6, 2009 at 4:42 PM
• Hans Lick says:

  So where did they get the final short chorus sung in the present Met edition? Anybody know? Is it even Offenbach? Does it come from some other bouffe or was it found among the composer’s discards? It makes no sense in the opera and turns the plot topsy-turvy. I resent as much as Mimi coming back to life in Rent.

  on December 9, 2009 at 1:53 PM