parterre box

154 comments

• The Vicar of John Wakefield says:

  Here at the Vicarage one didn’t listen to the radio broadcast as one had already heard and commented on a previous “Elektra” to the effect that Bullock was a fine artist but not, on this year’s showing, vocally in the league of Shuard or Tinsley.

  Of course one knows that Collier –unarguably the world’s finest Tosca 1960-70– was an Aussie, like Minton, Shaw, Sinclair and so many other top-flight ROH “Commonwealth” artists.

  on December 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM
  • Harry says:

    Sinclair was born in Somerset ENGLAND Vicar? This time you have ran away with yourself…, just the opposite side of the World.

    on December 27, 2009 at 1:17 PM
• Troppo Primavera says:

  I would hate to attach myself to the insane anglophilia of the Wakefield resident but Amy Shuard was indeed one of the great Elektras which she sang first under Bohm,then Kempe,Schippers and many others.Karajan planned a production for her but a strike stopped it happening,She recorded only the monologue under Downes bit it gives a good idea of her intensely tragic Elektra.She was offstage a very larger than life character ,a real London cockney,If she were with us now and had had to endure the squawking of Bullock I can imagine her reaction:’Cor blimey!’

  on December 27, 2009 at 1:44 PM
  • mrmyster says:

    Troppo, puhleeze!!! Wakefield is not insane — he is merely
    English, or at least British. It’s to be expected. Englishmen are
    the most parochial people in the world; it’s because they live
    on an Island. Did you know that the soprano’s name was
    originally Bollocks, and her manager changed it to Bullock?
    What do you think of that?
    The Vicar of Wakefield is a treasure; please treat him well;
    he is a fabulous source of obscure UK singer names that
    otherwise you would never know about!

    on December 27, 2009 at 2:50 PM
    • armerjacquino says:

      Yeah, except he’s (I presume) American.

      And his whole schtick is snide, unfair and deeply fucking boring.

      on December 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM
      • CruzSF says:

        I think he really is British. But I agree with your other descriptions of his postings. Enough people here seem to like him, though…

        on December 27, 2009 at 4:22 PM
      • Harry says:

        I do tend to have a a bit of a jocular ‘dig’ at the Vicar from time to time, but we also do and can appreciate the effort he puts into digging up overlooked names from the past. And one must admit the comparisons of past and present singers he turns up…..leaves us upon reflection, finally seeing the paucity in the number of really genuine artists, today.

        Otherwise, why are we hearing all the time about all those P.R boosted ‘micro-wave speed success’ stories of some many present singers that finish ending up in rapid failure. We do not have to list the names as they are all plainly evident to us all.

        on December 28, 2009 at 1:56 AM
    • parpignol says:

      I love the Vicar! my favorite poster since Famous Quickly, and whatever happened to her? could Quickly and the Vicar be hilariously one and the same?

      on December 27, 2009 at 4:57 PM
      • manou says:

        The Vicar and FQ provide a running gag – which easily runs out of steam and becomes tediously predictable. In the case of the Vicar he does have to do a modicum of research so he obviously feels it is worth the effort.

        on December 27, 2009 at 7:08 PM
• The Vicar of John Wakefield says:

  Boring is what most opera-goers find Jacquino, unless he is played by an outstanding artist like Murray Dickie, the first British Kammersaenger in Vienna since Lincolnshire’s Alfie Piccaver. Other than the Garden-nurtured Vickers, Dickie was the only qualified participant in the Met’s bicentennial FIDELIO.

  Some posters here also seem less than bored by Our Own Toby Spence, a sprightly Jacquino.

  on December 27, 2009 at 4:40 PM
• kashania says:

  Let’s not forget that Vickers was not only Garden-nurtured but Commonwealth! In fact, I find it odd that with all the fine Canadian singers out there, the Vicar has not spent more time praising these worthy Commonwealth talents.

  on December 27, 2009 at 6:07 PM
• Sanford says:

  Parpignol, I miss Famous Quickly. I also missed MrsJC, and I’m glad to see she’s back. I like The Vicar. I like seeing continuity on the site; some of us have been coming here for years (and many for longer than I); I look forward to new posts on this site. The musical contests are fun, though I can’t guess a lot of the singers, and the regie quizzes are amusing (I’m still waiting for the right answer to finally be The Mikado).

  on December 27, 2009 at 10:32 PM
• Doberdawg says:

  To call the waltz “crude and silly” is in itself crude and silly. Besides J and R Strauss, we have (in no particular order) the following composers who composed waltzes: Lanner, Beethoven, Haydn, Schubert, Chopin, Sibelius, Glazunov, Debussy, Ravel, Ivanovici, Shostakovich, Khachaturian, Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky, etc. as well as a plethora of contemporary composers who employ the 3/4 triple meter dance form. I’ll take their endorsement of the waltz (through their compositions) over the critique of a fat old bitter queen any day.

  Schweig’ und Tanze!

  on December 28, 2009 at 1:34 AM
• mrsjohnclaggart says:

  Yes and as usual on an anonymous board a fool and moron uses the familiar lines of personal attack to miss my points and prove himself a ridiculous tin eared joke.

  The very idea that you would compare Haydn (exactly WHERE are his ‘waltzes’ and what purposes do they serve in what works?) and Chopin (with his endless harmonic invention and nostalgic elegance and delicacy) favorably to the cheap and sentimental and crude R Strauss and miss entirely Ravel’s vicious irony in sending up R Strauss’ use and abuse of the waltz shows what an ignorant fool you are, a gross and disgusting blot on sites like this (and where in R Strauss is there any harmonic and formal thinking such as Chopin shows, often for the first time in history, in the Nocturnes, Scherzi or Ballades?) You superficial, tin eared, coprophiliac philistine. You wreck sites like this.

  Go ahead and drop names none of whose music you have heard or understood, like the usual goons afflicted with a pustule where their brains should be. Fuck you and not only for your facile personal cheap shots (we are to assume you are a young beauty rather than a nasty old insignificant idiot with a personal ax to grind?), the very stupidity of your line of attack is a sickening self indictment.

  And indeed that we are to compare Lanner to Beethoven or Glazunov to Debussy either as talents or in the way they used various meters and dance rhythms to make significant points shows that you can use google but neither hear nor think nor refute any point I made with any indication of intellect or actual knowledge of the music.

  Where does Golaud express his fascination with Melisande, his restless and growing love for her, his growing suspicion, his violent jealousy and his terrible remorse in a WALTZ? Where does ANYONE in Pelleas use a waltz to express ANY emotion? Where are the waltzes in La Mer, Jeux or indeed how many does Debussy have recourse to in the Preludes?

  Where are the waltzes in Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk? You don’t know of any. Where do Tatyana, Lenksi, Onegin, Gremin or even Olga express emotion in WALTZES? Where’s the waltz in the final scene? Just where do Ghermann and Lisa and the Countess uses WALTZES in their highest moments of tragic self revelation. Oh, by the way, those last are character names from the waltz drunk Tchaikovsky, your mentioning of him in the context you use shows what a disgusting mind free loss you are.

  Crude, know nothing, insensitive cretin and bully. Your detestable ignorance and philistinism is what I loathe about the opera Net. The issue is not a metre but the effectiveness of its use as an expressive device in combination with a large number of aesthetic decisions such as harmony and intent (easy piano pieces in waltz time no doubt sold well for Schubert who was a free lance artist, maybe the first; Lanner made a living writing popular landlers actually to be danced to).

  But yet on an opera board, you don’t mention the romantic composers and their use of strongly marked dance and march rhythm as expressive devices in the theater — such as Donizetti, Weber, Berlioz and most importantly Verdi. Yet while Verdi always uses a powerful melodic inflection to imprint his musical characterization, and NEVER clots up and covers cheap ideas with false relations, bad counterpoint and noise as R Srauss does CONSTANTLY he didn’t occur to you — Garmise or tritter, the Behrens corpse fucker or any of the other cheap shot takers. Whether you are one of them, an asshole buddy or simply a disciple, you are like them ignorant non achieving rancid cankers who use an easy rhetorical viciousness as though that means or proves anything about me, or dignifies an idea. Your list is the knowledge, taste and sensitivity free equivalent of used and abused toilet paper torn up and eaten by you as dessert.

  And I’m not about to Schweig about what I know and you don’t. How DARE you try to censor intelligent and informed discussion even if you disagree with it? Tanz your self to an agonizing death, whore’s sore.

  on December 28, 2009 at 2:36 AM
  • Salomanda says:

    “Behrens corpse-fucker.” Real nice. You stay classy.

    Also, way to not completely fucking lose your shit and look like an idiot. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. And you certainly do your fair share of dishing, darling.

    on December 28, 2009 at 7:28 PM
    • Doberdawg says:

      Salomanda, I couldn’t agree more. MJClaggart has lost it, and I laughed hysterically at the monster’s attempt at a response to my calling it on its stupidity. I can see him choking on a ham sandwhich (a la Mama Cass) while typing out his bullsh*t.

      Schweeeeeig! Und Taaaaaaaaanze!!

      on December 28, 2009 at 9:21 PM
• Harry says:

  “Steady on, Claggart!”…. Anybody would say reading …..such intemperate language. It appears you are becoming hostile, taking everything as a personal slight, because you are not getting your ‘presumed due of respect’ from some contributors who may differ with your opinions.

  One would have to say you are using various selective instances to jointly: relate / attach to, reinforce and finally substantiate the particular stance you personally wish to take. Then, infer that others (except yourself), are mere fools or morons..whatever! Others have their right to respect for their opinions and views. No one is impressed by those that wish to betray themselves as self -designated Music Einsteins using but the ‘music of the gutter’, relentlessly. It pricks the air out of any ballooning musical theories, they may wish to subscribe to ; and especially, have people even acknowledge, in pasting.

  on December 28, 2009 at 4:10 AM
  • mrsjohnclaggart says:

    And Harry how do you justify the following about me: “fat old bitter queen”? That has to do with the points I’m making how? That refutes or qualifies my opinions in what way? How does that asshole demonstrate that he has your passion (for example) and your disagreement which you have expressed pointedly and persistently but within a general convention of at least reasonable civility?

    I don’t need to put you down personally, or aver insulting things about you to disagree with you. I don’t expect to convince you and that’s not my purpose. No one is ever convinced by these sorts of arguments. However if one is going to trot out names like that grotesque goon, names that don’t belong together, trot them out with NO awareness of differences and further, not even TRY the most obvious refutation of some of what I said (for indeed the great Verdi did use waltz time to express high emotion and it would have been really sincere and intelligent as opposed to simply seizing an opportunity viciously to attack me to ask me how I accounted for that) what response is there but fuck you. (not you Harry, that coward and bully).

    And I have made a decision whatever it costs me — I won’t allow nonentities and nobodies to call me names especially when they remain anonymous, when they can find out plenty about me, as though that refutes or modifies anything I’ve said. I will smash the assholes who have called me an anti-semite, a failure and a fraud, and fat and whatever else rather than offer ONE example of where I’m wrong. If I have to leave this site again, as I did after the vicious attacks of yet another anonymous bully, the Berhens necrophiliac, so be it. Whenever I can I will try to smash these people in the only way they can understand. Let them show they know what I do, and yes, accomplish what I have and then we’ll talk — senile lawyers who were corporate whores and slightly younger no account lawyers, and mentally twisted academics with nothing but bile are like ants to me. I say burn them alive with a magnifying glass in the sun!

    Meanwhile, read carefully Harry. I have a lot against the deification of R Strauss, which you are entirely free to disregard and dismiss. But I have not made sweeping statements about ‘waltzes’, the basis of that goon’s attack nor have I dragged a ton of names into my discussion of R Strauss which EVERYBODY here is free to ignore.

    I will say that reading her archive has shown me that La Cieca had built a remarkable site against heavy odds, one that can encompass pretty much everything from the dish and bitchery we all adore and indulge in, to hard not to mention erect news to very serious discussion about operatic dramaturgy and music. There will always be people drawn to one element over another but I thought the asshole was trying to suppress seriously intended discussion by trying to bully me into silence. It will not happen. Or I will be gone. And if that’s your preference, well, perhaps you will get your way and rejoice.

    on December 28, 2009 at 4:57 AM
    • Alto says:

      Wow. Mrs. C. is treasurable for the large nuggets of info and thought she sticks on the tips of her slings and arrows. Keep at it, madame.

      on December 28, 2009 at 12:14 PM
• Harry says:

  I do think that anyone who contributes to any website has to be tough skinned at times. We all are anonymous here, and it is only natural we all form personal impressions -pictures of other contributors over time, in our own mind’s eye. Undoubtedly an incredible amount of those such impressions would be wild of the mark, if people actually met each other, in real life.

  We all certainly have ‘that peculiar special passion’ that Opera creates and which leaves non-believers in utter dismay.

  I am very mindful of the shortcomings of R.Strauss the man. Some may find it easier to go straight to the music structures of a composer on a academic level while others wish to analyze him by methods of ‘encirclement by research’. His life, his friends, the time period, any correspondence, various life changing incidents, recurring psychological references that may crop up, as well the political climate and social environment : lived in -while composing . Whether one method is more efficient or correct, in coming to its findings, is debatable. Though the final ‘main aim’ is the same, by what are two different analytical forces. Best, when they are found complimentary in some aspects to each other.

  on December 28, 2009 at 7:19 AM
  • MontyNostry says:

    Going back to Elektra and — our favourite subject –sopranos, does anyone else think that, had she not lost it and had she been able to sing well in German, Galina Gorchakova could have made a fine Elektra?

    on December 28, 2009 at 7:47 AM
    • Alto says:

      “had she not lost it and had she been able to sing well in German”

      Well, if Nicolai Gedda were a woman and temperamentally suitable, he too might make a fine Elektra. But what’s the point in such a discussion?

      on December 28, 2009 at 12:12 PM
      • MontyNostry says:

        CerquettiFarrell chose to pick up on my comment in a responsive fashion.

        on December 28, 2009 at 6:40 PM
      • Dubist Derlenz says:

        In the first few years of her career definitely. An interesting artist, and really beautiful to watch on stage. Her last performances of Lisa were really sad to witness. She could barely squeak out the notes. It’s as if her technique had completely failed her. Kinda reminded me of Sulioutis a bit, in terms of singing without good solid technique and hoping that it would work in the long run.

        on December 28, 2009 at 11:39 PM
    • CerquettiFarrell says:

      I don’t think she could have. What you hear on the Fiery Angel DVD / CD is “singing with the capital not interest”. I loved Gorchakova’s timbre and grand style, above all her sincerity and generosity, but she had no technique to mention. Those Prokofiev perofmances contributed to the destruction of her voice: already in her Philips recitals and complete opera recordings there are severe problems and choking on A flat upwards, and a totally disconnected, if fascinating, animalistic chest register. She had immensely rewarding if slightly frustrating 5-8 years after the Angel production, then she was finished. The voice was certainly an Elektra-sized one, yet she couldn’t have gone through even one performance of it. Still, the best, most gorgeous Lisa and the best modern Forza Leonora, truly grand-style Italian singing, vocal trouble notwithstanding.

      on December 28, 2009 at 6:34 PM
      • CerquettiFarrell says:

        plus, she had true rhythmic discipline, unlike most big voices, and very much like callas, she can REALLY sing through these dotted eight notes and keep them in very strict time, always a sign of true musicianship and a very difficult thing to get right.

        Thought I would find the Prologue duet online with the impressive Grigorian, but it’s not there. Anyway, the dotted eights occur in the repetition of “ah non dividerci del fato”, letter G bars 5-6.

        on December 28, 2009 at 6:39 PM
      • MontyNostry says:

        Thank you, CF. I saw her Renate back when she was a new girl on the block and the big sound just seemed to come out almost on its own. I also saw her do a Tatyana (splendid sound, but a little on the heroic side) and a Yaroslavna (which I remember as being a bit sloppy). I really meant the size and colour of the voice, rather than technique. Its colour always reminded me of Jessye meets Ghena. (Now, did Ghena ever consider Elektra? She wouldn’t have been very manic or subtle, but it would have sounded impressive!)

        on December 28, 2009 at 6:44 PM
      • CerquettiFarrell says:

        I see some similarity between the Dimitrova, Norman and Gorchakova timbres. But she is much more “my” kind of singer than either of the others. Its a question of regarding music as a continuous phenomenon instead of notes in a row. Direction, dynamics, style, musical and dramatic context, subscribing to the composer’s vision. I always tend to regard Dimitrova as a vocal machine providing some admittedly impressively large and powerful notes, but not much more than that. With Norman it’s more complicated. I almost never warm to whatever she’s doing because she always seems to me to sing Norman and be Norman regardeless of the composer and context. Always tyring to make her point, instead of abandoning herself and letting go. Gorchakova seemed to me to be very different. The vocal “face” is changing. Even her scena before “madre, pietose vergine” had subtle changes in all three professional recordings. Incidentally, it’s intersting to notice that the Philips engineers, perhaps accustomed to work with voices the size of Norman’s, managed to capture the Gorchakova phenomenon much more successfully than the DG engineers, as you can hear on the Jaervi “Mazeppa” (DG) vs Philips Gergiev recordings.

        on December 28, 2009 at 7:19 PM
      • Camille says:

        Merci to both Mr. Monty and Mme. C/F for provoking this discussion on La Gorchakova, whose early demise I have bitterly mourned.
        I was lucky enough to have seen her Lisa and then there was a last performance as Elisabetta di Valois later on, after which I knew she would not be around any longer. So sad as such grand voices are to be cherished.

        I can still recall the thrill of her Met broadcast Butterfly in ’95. What a voice.

        As to whether she would have made an Elektra, I think that it would not have suited her closely enough, although I admit the idea is intriguing.

        Thank you, gentlemen, for having brought her up in conversation.

        on December 28, 2009 at 7:47 PM
      • Buster says:

        Gorchakova’s Manon Lescaut for Gergiev was very strange, to say the least. Ice cold, too. One of the worst Gergiev performances I have ever attended, second only to his disastrous Fidelio earlier this year.

        on December 29, 2009 at 9:59 AM
      • mrsjohnclaggart says:

        Madame C/F how right you are. Galina G was much like Galina V as a personality but actually possessed the more amazing voice. Galina V was a great artist, with breathtaking high pianissimi and a strong well projected tone even late in the day (but the beauty at forte wore off early). She was physically and mentally made of steel, and she had the more useful hubby. She was riveting and actually rather fun (I played her and Slava an evening of Obukhova records and they wept and drank, and drank some more to the amazing arias and Lieder, then sang along to the Shostakovitch popular songs). But when in the mood could scream for days and really terrorize even the meanest queens in the vicinity (those cruising thirty blocks away, on K with hidden blades, and small pistoleers heard the shrieks and hid). Her recording of Fidelio though is one of the greatest, with the marvelous though as she told the world monstrous Nelepp as Florestan.

        Galina G had one of the great voices of her era, and in fact possibly in the 20th century. It was enormous, initially easily produced through the entire range, with a glorious color in the middle. Her top was strong, even pulverizing, but for the most part produced without the Slavic scream. She had a charismatic presence, an enormous personality and an explosive temperament.

        That Flaming Angel (I am not referring to myself) was astonishing. I saw three, one more incredible than another. She poured out that ocean of tone unstintingly, managed those crazy intervals as though they were nothing and conveyed sexual possession and madness in a scary, thrilling way. There were also three Pique Dame Lizas, unannounced, where Gergiev put her on instead of the Ghoul — he was fond of Galina G. for that time. I have only rarely and never recently heard such a lush, apparently endless tonal outpouring and what a tragic interpretation.

        I was at the Forzas at the Kirov. That was a major mess and neither CD nor DVD (has it been released commercially, I think so, but it was televised and taped) tell the truth. However though Galina struggled now and then (as has every Leonora I’ve ever seen) it was the closest to old Zinka and Big Renata among those I’ve seen live, and to the greatest Anita Cerquetti who is on two pirates (the one from RAI on Myto is stunning). Since I heard Anita live twice, I can attest that she and the others and Galina all had this ability to pour out immense, soaring tone with an innate ‘theater’ color, gripping, emotive and moving. And her voice had the full range, right down to those daunting excursions into mezzo territory as well as the soaring top (when she could get set for it).

        And what a burning intensity in the convent scene. Like most Russians she didn’t believe in saving herself, and since Gergiev had about three hundred rehearsals (he didn’t know and could’t learn the score) where he insisted everybody sing full voice, she was doing herself some damage.

        But then she ratted him out — his negotiating the fees for “his” artists and taking huge cuts, his shoving people on regardless of contract, rehearsal, their vocal health or whether they even knew the roles well. And he killed her career. But by then she was having trouble and never recovered.

        The other amazing Russian dramatic of that era was Nina Rautio, who gave two of the most astounding big scale soprano performances I’ve ever seen when she went on (unannounced and not rehearsed for those performances) as the Maid of Orleans with the Bolshoi in NY. She just wiped orchestra and chorus out in the big ensembles, but she could scale back to a lush delicacy. She also did a thrilling Tatyana, and in Rome, an Aida that drowned everyone else out in the Triumphal Scene, but then sang like a sweet, floaty lyric in act three (the audience went mad, and her Italian agent was able to book her for four years in Italy including a Scala debut).

        Something happened unfortunately; her voice collapsed for reasons unknown (she didn’t seem to be forcing but then who knows) and from a wild cat she became cautious and inhibited. Though she wasn’t the worst thing about the Scala Manon Lescaut (new production done for her) she was, let’s face it, pretty bad. But those of us who had seen her before were shocked, likewise when she turned up at the Met as only a so-so Aida.

        on December 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM
      • CerquettiFarrell says:

        Mrs John! Thank you so much for these lovely memories. My main point is (and I think you may have hinted at that) that Gorchakova, in spite of her large instrument and larger-than-life personality, was a “clean” singer, by which I mean not necessarily clean in pitch but having the willingness to serve the composer’s intentions regarding phrasing, dynamics etc, sometimes at the expense of vocal comfort and detrimental to the instrument. Such was La Cerquetti, who provided for me, with Forza, Ballo and above all Vespri, three of the greatest Verdi soprano recordings of the 20th century. The othr significant “clean” singer is, well you know who.

        on December 29, 2009 at 6:36 PM
  • Alto says:

    I love how quickly we all prescribe a “tough skin” when it is somebody besides us being attacked.

    on December 28, 2009 at 12:15 PM
• MontyNostry says:

  … Her Renate in The Fiery Angel suggested that she could have.

  on December 28, 2009 at 7:48 AM