parterre box

67 comments

• Bluessweet says:

  Confession: I’ve stopped contributing much. I’m sure to everyone’s relief. When I got to the place where I could not read a string of names without missing one, (Sorry about that, Sanford.) it was time to quit.

  However, I’m stimulated Henry Holland’s comments to posit my own a take on opera and its future.

  First, are Henry H and Harry merely clones? Both like to use vulgarisms, or is that just a ‘Strine mannerism? They both seem to be avowedly Wagnerian and post Wagnerians. They could easily form a club. Both have the same unique point of view and style. Both have a well thought out and therefore interesting commentary. That is not to say that I agree with them but that, as I say in my second paragraph, they do stimulate thought.

  <b.Opera as a museum piece.. Well, it probably was never much more. Certainly, in France, Great Britain and the US, the Music Hall, Burlesque, Minstrel Shows and the Cabaret were much more popular. By the 1940’s, here in the US, opera was the object of much derision, as exemplified by George McManus in his comic strip, “Bringing up Father,” where a gentrifying wife, Maggie, was always dragging her “regular guy” type husband, Jiggs, to the opera, which he hated. The strip goes back earlier but I wasn’t reading it then, so I can’t say how much further back this attitude was in vogue. The odd thing is that the strip was based on a Musical Comedy character and the Irishman who played its leading role, Billy Barry. You might think that a musical presentation of any sort was ok with McManus. Such does not seem to be the case.

  Music today. After about 1957, Rock and Roll and it’s several variants created a gap between older people and new generations that had never existed in the same magnitude. My mother listened to the same popular music that I did; my kids did not. Mom’s dabbling in opera and classical music made me aware of it as a very young person. My kids got that exposure from me but not from their peers or their peer’s parents. After “The Wiz,” even musical comedy changed and today it is blockbuster destination theater, as exemplified by “Wicked.” Your smart, Noel Coward type of comedy is a museum piece itself, not far removed from opera.

  Operetta.>b/> We just had an alert that Ted Otten and Michael Kownacky were presenting “El Capitan,” a John Phillip Sousa operetta, on WWFM. Surely, a museum piece. What operetta, excepting “The Merry Widow” or “Die Fledermaus” can you ever expect to see?

  Modern RepertoireSo, just as Wicked and Annie tour the country over and over as spectaculars that you will spend a ton of money to take the teenagers and younger to see, La Boheme and La Traviata will be performed for the Maggies of this world.

  <bLuck If Henry Holland and the rest of us are very lucky, kind people such as Peter Gelb will gamble that the old oddity such as “La Forza del Destino” will draw enough to be included in a profit-based program. (Profit meaning full house, we know that opera exists only on subsidy of some sort.) The same gamble exists for new works or even older works not seen since their debut, such as “The Nose.”

  I think that we should all get down on out knees and offer obeisance to Gelb and his ilk for even trying to do more than the tried and true. Opera buffs have be oddities themselves since Maggie and Jiggs hit the papers and that may be as far back as 1913.

  Thanks for you thought-inspiring commentary, Henry Holland.

  on July 5, 2010 at 9:57 AM
• Bluessweet says:

  Sorry but the stop bold did not work as I remembered the posting. I’ll have to look it up again.

  on July 5, 2010 at 9:58 AM
• Sanford says:

  Bluesweet, thanks for the shout out (I think).

  This is a bold test

  on July 5, 2010 at 10:35 AM
• Sanford says:

  Bluesweet, add this at the end of the bold

  on July 5, 2010 at 10:35 AM
• Sanford says:

  Soory, Blue… it’s the less then sign backslash b greater than sign

  on July 5, 2010 at 12:35 PM
• Harry says:

  Bluessweet: I accept what you are saying. Rest assured I am not Henry Holland. I am sure he would say the same, in return – regards me.
  Yes theatrical tastes in all parts of its Art forms have changed.
  Historically it all changed dramatically I pinpoint around the cusp of the 60′s. The World was going through turbulent times, people were still closeted.
  I always say “It was not the commies under the bed…but sex waiting to rare up and make its very loud and naked appearance” With Rock n’ Roll,’ruin was definitely at hand’. Plus Broadway songs, being censored during their travel, across into Hollywood films. By chance the other night I was watching a dance clip from Fred Astaire’s film of Silk Stockings and it encapsulated ‘the cultural divide mess’ that 60′s Period had caught itself in. There he was, dancing something called the Rock n’ Roll Waltz with women sashaying around in full evening gowns swinging their dress trains trying to be ‘hip’. It was embarrassingly laughable.

  Broadway shows have become mega million ‘Cinemascope productions with miked multi – channel sound /light /and scenary changes and usually done in converted grand old cinemas’ The capacity of how many paying bums on seats they can fit in, is the critical importance A live subversion of the old ‘film extravaganza experience’. Live performances of Opera have become H.D film experiences , another ‘so called wonder’ reverse.
  We are going through another hiatus: with ‘various mediums’ being trailed & tested’.
  Hollywood no longer relies on ‘novels’ as the driving force for scripts, but play games and kids comics. Served up in 3-D, Imax and Gold Class viewing lounges at astronomical prices.
  Technology is the real message being transmitted!…..f…k whatever the message of the product presented, is supposed to be. The only immediate importance of entertainment moguls is ‘did something turn the big profit, in its first week?’…or what were the profits from the ‘toys spin off products we flogged in conjunction with the film to some food chain selling junk food garbage to kids?’.
  Intrinsic worth, quality, and durability become disposable commodities. It reminds me of the old ‘flea pit theaters’ once used to show double features of ‘first release c grade films’ where the program was religiously changed every 7 days, 52 weeks a years. Prices were very low, but the theater served another benefit. They gathered a regular clientele who do not care what was on the screen…..in the dark ‘more interesting things were possible and …taking place’.

  Yet one can go to a small live theater venue today and come across the most amazing things. Professional actors and singers of the highest standards ‘with a compulsion to be working’ putting on say a small opera, cabaret or a Broadway show, perhaps with just a grand piano.
  And you come away, your faith renewed in the human non mechanized ability of a performer to not ‘shout’ but reach out and ‘sing to each audience member’. What magic!

  on July 5, 2010 at 3:19 PM
• Harry says:

  Henry Holland: What pisses me off in lots of cases is some so called classical composers that write some ‘clever technical exercise piece’ and then dare not call it a symphony, a sonata, whatever….but give it instead some fanciful name. Perhaps, they are not sure what musical form it is supposed to represent in any case and are just as confused as any potential listener. Perhaps they might be even a walking jerk, with big networking abilities- let out of some Conservatoire!
  But look at all the media copy mileage the composer can get, from being interviewed, ‘explaining’ the piece’s meaning in the media to gullible sods. Then they can play ‘all superior’ and blame the detractors ‘who don’t get it’….it is the case of playing the blame game. Far from being the listener’s fault…

  It is IN FACT…..the composer’s fault. He wrote the F…..king thing!!!!!. He created something to present to the public…Since he wants public not some secret self-granted recognition ; is that not true? He offers it to the public…..je wants accolades, does he not?

  It is the public’s undisputed right to reject it.
  Since when did ‘Supply and Demand’ crease to be the main stay of musical composition?

  I read a article by Ned Rorem once in the 60′s where he described some other music figure that ran up to him and said to Rorem: that he had written a piece more complex than anything Elliot Carter had written. Elliot Carter at that time was the ‘bees knees’ as the benchmark for complex music scoring. Ned Rorem’s jocular printed comment at this senseless remark, was “Then I gladly must be then Queen Maria Theresa of Austria”

  Where are those great 20th Century musical ‘new wave’ instrumental innovations of the past? The noisy vacuum cleaners or the loud airplane propellers turned on in concert halls , or the Moog synthesizers (delighting the 12 tone freaks?). Sorry, those ‘precious’ late 50′s Electronic Moogs are now obsolete and probably rotting, buried in the garbage tips.

  And if you contend people decades ago , went to the movies because they were cheap instead of opera ; and accepted a diet of lush romantic music….why should a culture created from that historical exercise be now ridiculed for not accepting dissonant 12 tone and free form works as a result? Culture is now so readily available, so immerse and varied , people do not have time to put up with the clutter of ‘being retrained’. To listen to musical bullshit and a lecture discourse on ‘how to appreciate it’ by some musical self styled intellectual. Something, they just might have tolerated years ago. Today that problem is solved. It is as simple as the flick of switch on the radio, the CD, the TV. There are too many other things in their life to occupy their interests..

  on July 5, 2010 at 4:53 PM
• Henry Holland says:

  Henry Holland: If by “survival” you mean as “a living art relevant to now”

  Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. Thank you for the definition. I should have started out by defining the (starry eyed?) thing I was referring to

  Maybe it’s my cynicism coloring things, but I simply don’t see that happening. The current trend seems to be take a popular book or movie + lightweight movie soundtrack-ish score = New American opera. See: Heggie, Jake.

  What makes me wonder is this: OK, so people new to opera go to those things, but does that audience then rush out to subscribe to seasons of Mozart, Verdi, Wagner and Puccini? I don’t think so, they like the specific type of opera that Heggie et al. provide, it doesn’t transfer to the standard rep. All those new audiences that show up for the Met’s The Nose (largely because of the production, I gather), are they going to buy tickets for the rest of the season? I doubt it.

  It’s kind of like me and ballet: I’m all over Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev’s big, lush story ballets, you’d have to pay me to go to an evening of abstract dance with a black backdrop, the dancers in street clothes and a minimalist score.

  First, are Henry H and Harry merely clones? Both like to use vulgarisms, or is that just a ‘Strine mannerism?

  A what now? What the fuck is a ‘Strine mannerism?

  No, seriously, what is it?

  After “The Wiz,” even musical comedy changed and today it is blockbuster destination theater, as exemplified by “Wicked.” Your smart, Noel Coward type of comedy is a museum piece itself, not far removed from opera

  I was thinking about dead (as in: having trouble being relevant to now) artforms this weekend and things like jazz (stuck in the early 60′s pre-electric Miles, pre-free jazz bop styles), Broadway (when’s the last time a show tune became a standard? Dreamgirls big number for the diva?), ballet (the big picture ballets still do well, but apart from Balanchine, other stuff struggles) and maybe even rock and hip-hop (now in total recycle mode; a grunge revival will be on us within the next 5 years, guaranteed). Opera isn’t alone in having trouble moving on.

  What pisses me off in lots of cases is some so called classical composers that write some ‘clever technical exercise piece’ and then dare not call it a symphony, a sonata, whatever….but give it instead some fanciful name

  A lot of composers haven’t called pieces “Sonata in three parts with a fugue at the end” since LSD took over, erm, the 60′s and Riley’s pieces like A Rainbow In Curved Air. A strange complaint to have, must say.

  Perhaps, they are not sure what musical form it is supposed to represent in any case and are just as confused as any potential listener.

  Or: you have issues that maybe are best dealt with by a professional.

  But look at all the media copy mileage the composer can get, from being interviewed, ‘explaining’ the piece’s meaning in the media to gullible sods

  Where is all this “media copy” for composers not named John Adams because I sure don’t see Matthias Pintscher or Hanspeter Kyburz on Dateline NBC or 60 Minutes (to use to US examples). They might get 5 minutes on BBC 3, in between the muzak they mostly play there now.

  Then they can play ‘all superior’ and blame the detractors ‘who don’t get it’….it is the case of playing the blame game

  Nonsense. Link to one article not involving Boulez or Ferneyhough, or one that’s not from 1953, that blames “detractors ‘who don’t get it’”. I’ll say it again: A vast majority of composers are desperate for their music to communicate. Just because those people ripping audiences for their cluelessness exist in your head doesn’t make them real.

  I read a article by Ned Rorem once in the 60’s

  Yeah, that’s recent, isn’t it? [rolls eyes] And Rorem’s safely tonal music isn’t exactly overplayed, is it? Good god, you’re like a parody of a Kyle Gann cliche, still fighting the serialism wars of the 50′s and 60′s like some Japanese soldier trapped on a small island still fighting WWII. That stuff hasn’t mattered since the 70′s, even Boulez doesn’t claim that total serialism is the wave of the future.

  Where are those great 20th Century musical ‘new wave’ instrumental innovations of the past? The noisy vacuum cleaners or the loud airplane propellers turned on in concert halls

  Well, Sancho Panza, you’re tilting at a windmill –Antheil’s propellors in his Ballet Mechanique– that happened in 1935, what on earth does that have to do with anything? You can cherry pick examples all you want, it doesn’t strengthen your “argument” at all. For every reactionary like you, there was someone that was inpsired by Antheil’s antics.

  the Moog synthesizers (delighting the 12 tone freaks?). Sorry, those ‘precious’ late 50’s Electronic Moogs are now obsolete and probably rotting, buried in the garbage tips

  God, the stupid, it burns, it burns like the fires of all the stars in the Crab Nebula. You really don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, do you, you just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

  Those original Moogs and other synthesizers are now highly prized museum pieces, very expensive when they rarely come on the market. The first commercially-produced Moogs were sold to dudes who wrote music for commercials and movie soundtracks, not some 12-tone Monster that exists only in your head. The Moog that Wendy Carlos did Switched on Bach with –Bach was a 12-toner, who knew?– is easily worth $100,000 today. I was in a music store two weeks ago playing a synthesizer that cost $20,000; the trash bin is where your thinking belongs.

  why should a culture created from that historical exercise be now ridiculed for not accepting dissonant 12 tone and free form works as a result?

  Again, you very strange man, who is doing any such ridiculing? God, you’re a dinosaur, the serialism wars are over! I don’t give a damn who OR IF anyone likes Birtwistle, Reimann or Zimmermann or any of my favorites, it would be impossible for me to care less, I simply want acknowledgment from administrators at orchestras and opera companies that fans of that music exists and that the niche audience for it should be catered to just like Renaissance vocal music or Baroque opera or organ recitals are. See: the production of Die Soldaten in New York a few years ago.

  To listen to musical bullshit and a lecture discourse on ‘how to appreciate it’ by some musical self styled intellectual

  You mean like James Conlon giving lectures about the Wagner operas he was about to conduct at the Dot, complete with CD examples of the leitmotifs? Or any of a number of lectures before Mozart or Verdi operas I’ve attended?

  It is as simple as the flick of switch on the radio, the CD, the TV. There are too many other things in their life to occupy their interests

  Where have I said otherwise? I clearly stated that the operatic audience has voted with its attendance and dollars and they clearly want Top 40 stuff. Jeebus.

  Bluessweet, I think I’m going to take offense at being compared to Harry now.

  on July 6, 2010 at 4:15 PM