Comments on: Council chamber

By: No Expert

No Expert — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:22:50 +0000

Not to worry about Gheorghiu since she probably would cancel anyway.

By: Cassandra

Cassandra — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:39:35 +0000

Your concepts of fees at the Met are highly inaccurate. Met top fees are some of the lowest in the world.

The Met doesn’t pay nearly enough for it to be interesting to Domingo. He made his money a long, long time ago. The fee for him is nothing.

This has to do with building an unsurpassable record of roles and debuts at the Met so he will never be forgotten.

Money doesn’t even enter into it.

By: mrmyster

mrmyster — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:44:17 +0000

Suits me, as long as Olive sings the title role!
What a party DVD that would be.
I was going to do a La traviata duet with a
certain rather bizarre San Francisco woman
music critic, but unfortunately she passed away
(just in time). You see how these things go.
Olive, I hope your high-D is in great shape;
if not Pla. will sing it for you!

By: Liana

Liana — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:52:31 +0000

I prefer Matthaus Passion to Johannes, but overall, I must humbly admit that Baroque is not what I like most. Somehow, after a while, it always seems too monotonous; perhaps it would change if I had time to get to know it more thouroughly, but I don’t. And, since I mostly listen while working, that is, reading or writing, (and my job doesn’t have anything to do with music), I usually need something more dramatic to keep me awake .

By: CerquettiFarrell

CerquettiFarrell — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:01:22 +0000

There’s a whiff of propaganda about the Johannes, which I don’t sense in the Matthaeus. Of course I love the opening and closing choruses and Es ist vollbracht. But the turbas are very disturbing (musically and therefore emotionally) whereas The Matthaus is much more concerned with aesthetics. But I’ll take the High Mass any day over those two. Even singing it for six consecutive days (and having to do office-work in between) hasn’t quenched my appetite for this masterpiece, one of a kind and my all-time No. 1.

By: Liana

Liana — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:54:03 +0000

Nice to hear it armer . CF, I think there is something in Johannes Passion having this kind of impact on people, because me, it makes me feel much more catholic than I would like to admit…

By: armerjacquino

armerjacquino — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:48:56 +0000

Liana, I have happy memories of concertgoing in Poland. I saw a magnificent Verdi Requiem in Krakow when on holiday there in 2008- I particularly remember the soprano, Barbara Kubiak, who was wonderful (and who of course bears a significant surname).

By: CerquettiFarrell

CerquettiFarrell — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:44:33 +0000

Note taken, Liana. Johannes Passion is a problem though, makes me feel more Jewish than I want to admit Sang it under Hermann Max in Jerusalem and it certainly went deeper than ever! Of course I’ve heard about the festival, everybody who is anybody seems to be singing there…

By: Liana

Liana — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:37:19 +0000

Thank you CF ; actually, 8 degrees sound much more attractive than -15 and dropping. Unfortunately, I have to work for living, which, for the moment, means some 300 students to examine in the week to come -:(. But, as a fan of Baroque, you should try the Easter Festival Misteria Paschalia in Krakow, someday; this year, there will be Jaroussky, Vivica Genaux, Johannes Passion with Minkowski, and some other Baroque stars .

By: La Cieca

La Cieca — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:31:59 +0000

with some exceptions, no one is ever going to be able to stop the audience from clapping at the end of Nessun dorma

Well, you could hire Richard Margison.

By: CerquettiFarrell

CerquettiFarrell — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:20:50 +0000

Wanna come visit Tel Aviv, Liana? It’s only slightly warmer, only 8 degrees and probably degrees have dissappeared altogether come nightfall. No use night-swimming then
Anyway no interesting concerts, although Carydis does Berlioz’ Romeo & Juliette (one of my lone island works) and Pasichnyk (whom I like) comes to sing for my orchestra, the Camerata. And now I have to go start writing the programme notes, hope to finish Linz symphony by the time I drop out.

By: BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK

BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:19:38 +0000

Now I know why there are streets in Chicago named after Polish heroes !

By: Liana

Liana — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:15:03 +0000

MrsJC, I’m honoured by your attention. As for books by Rosselli, at least the second one, “Singers of Italian Opera” (if that’s the one you meant) is much more about the profession itself than about the audience. Still, one quote: “A young tenor in Ancona, in 1872, could not be heard because the audience was shouting and demonstrating angainst the supervisory board” (p. 153). Not exactly the behaviour we would expect today, isn’t it? And, from another book (Peter Conrad, A Song of Love and Death): “The subscribers at La Scala even brought their cooks, and every opera included an “aria del sorbetto”, timed to coincide with the refreshemnt course”; “”An octogenarian Princess Metternich ordered that the house lights be raised once more, so she could study the dresses of the ladies in the audience” (both p. 238). This is what I alluded to, mentioning the behaviour of 19th century audiences, very different from our behaviour today. And since the remarks ad personam have disappeared (thank you, La Cieca), I’ll just point out that winter is so very cold this year, here in the Far East, that visiting Parterre seems more attractive than any activity involving leaving my warm house…

By: BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK

BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:14:46 +0000

Might I suggest another variable — the age of the performer? The performance was not of Verdi’s “Simon Boccanegra” but of “Placido Domingo as Simon Boccanegra, incidentally written by Verdi.” Without having been in the house to conduct a survey, I would say that a large sampling was there to bid farewell to a beloved performer. When he “died,” their need was filled and so why should anything else matter? Or it might be they felt they’d better clap while he could still hear it.

By: Zerbinetta

Zerbinetta — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:05:10 +0000

As usual, La Cieca is right. I’m still a bit irate about the audience clapping at least five or six bars before the end of Act 3 of Boccanegra.

As someone who has worked on a few productions, I can say that between the conductor, blocking, lights, and of course curtains it is usually fairly easy to control applause (with some exceptions, no one is ever going to be able to stop the audience from clapping at the end of Nessun dorma). But these are decisions that the stage director and conductor have to make for each production.

By: CerquettiFarrell

CerquettiFarrell — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:46:37 +0000

Brava la Cieca

By: mrsjohnclaggart

mrsjohnclaggart — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:27 +0000

Why, [...]

By: La Cieca

La Cieca — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:39:32 +0000

As Betsy Ann points out below, or perhaps above, there should be some sense of proportion to these things. La Cieca is of the opinion that (e.g.) seven measures of loud repetition of the tonic chord are not of much musical interest anyway, so if the performance, E-flat or no E-flat, is an exciting one, why not start applauding as soon as the prima donna finishes singing? A quiet ending is another matter, which means the end of the first act of Butterfly or the finish of Tristan is going to need some help from the stage manager if the audience is to hear the dying fall. That means, at least at the Met, no movement of the curtain until the music is quite completely done, and probably a few extra seconds for good measure.

By: BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK

BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:33:07 +0000

one more thing, MrsJC, will you please bother to learn the difference between “compliment” and “complement.” Someone who makes a living dealing with the language might be able to help you — like a high school English teacher, perhaps.

By: BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK

BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:30:23 +0000

[...]

[Don't take this personally, Betsy, but La Cieca is going to take this opportunity to warn everyone -- you know who you are -- to ease up with the personal sniping. - LC]

By: Arianna a Nasso

Arianna a Nasso — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:10:20 +0000

Two other changes that play into this – 21st century audience behavior and stage lighting technology. Who knows what Verdi, Puccini, etc. would chose when confronted with those two factors.

By: mrsjohnclaggart

mrsjohnclaggart — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:06:14 +0000

Sorry Liana, I realize reading isn’t something you do but you might try two books I always recommend: “Italian Opera in the 19th Century” and “The Italian Opera Singer” both by that great scholar, the late John Roselli, marvelously and scrupulously researched yet concise and written with wit — I wish I had those qualities and that intellect.

[...]

Dr. Roselli has verified information about how audiences reacted under different circumstances and in different places, what composers expected and (a different matter) hoped for, and how they came to write directions for curtain fall at the end of acts (and whether what is in the score or libretto was always the composer’s idea or done at the first performance). He has also a lot of (often delicious) information about audience behavior(s).

[...]

By: BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK

BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:05:39 +0000

I grant you that, Zerbinetta, but there is probably a great variance of opinion as to at what point the story is to end. I’m not at all good at reading Verdi’s mind, for instance, to determine that he didn’t intend for the utter bourgeois banality of “O rio dolore” to be covered by respect for Violetta. And what is to be made of the two prime examples of coitus (or “voitus”) interruptus inherent in the false endings of Nessun dorma or Grossmachtige Prinzessin, both of which cadentially beg for applause. Dare I say it, I think there is some music which is not meant to be listened to.

By: Zerbinetta

Zerbinetta — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:57:04 +0000

I understand your point. But I think we should trust our own instincts and knowledge about today’s audiences. Closing the curtain early now seem to make audiences clap early. If we don’t want that to happen, we should close the curtain later, no matter what Verdi wrote. The ingredients that create “good theater”–and the conception of what constitutes “good theater”–have changed since the 19th and early 20th century, and we should acknowledge this and adjust accordingly to create the most effective performance today.

By: RobNYNY1957

RobNYNY1957 — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:41:54 +0000

I have no opinion on audiences applauding while the music is still playing. I was just pointing out that lowering the curtain during the music is not just something “they” do at the Met, and it was often the composers’ intention for the curtain to be lowered at a certain time and in a certain manner.

Puccini (for example, in Tosca) and Strauss (for example, in Rosenkavalier) frequently specified a rapid or slow curtain in their operas, in addition to indicating with great specificity where they want it to start falling. A some places they seem to be going for a blackout effect (fast curtain in the last moments), and sometimes a fadeout effect (slow curtain starting considerably before the end of the music). In Tosca, Puccini wants the last six bars of the first act to be in front of a closed curtain, in the second act a slow curtain in front of a fixed stage picture, and in the third act a rapid curtain as the soldiers mill about in confusion. It seems to me that Puccini and Strauss were both highly concerned with “creating an effective performance” and considered the timing of the curtain to be part of that.

By: Zerbinetta

Zerbinetta — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:36:44 +0000

I broadly agree with you, but I think that early clapping is a ritual reaction of the worst sort, prompted by the visual cue of the curtain rather than engagement with the music. To me, if feels much more natural to let the music breathe out its final cadence, and I don’t like clapping sucking me out of the story before it’s done.

By: Liana

Liana — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:31:53 +0000

I think the problem is, it works also the other way round. The 19th century audiences would be probably very surprised if someone told them they shouldn’t talk loud, or walk during a performance, or, if they were not satisfied, throw things on stage. Actually, sometimes, I really regret the latter custom, especially when I pay a lot of money and get a very bad performance in exchange. In such moments, I really miss the oppotunity of throwing some tomatoes. Oh, btw, is it true that in La Scala, they once threw a dead cat on stage?

By: BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK

BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:25:05 +0000

I have always felt that there are three key elements to any performance: a) the material, b) the performer, and c) the audience. If you dictate too strongly how the audience is to behave or react, you end up with ritual, i.e. “church,” in which The Great Whoozis won’t descend unless you all fold your hands in a certain way. That’s appropriate perhaps for Wagner, but I feel even his operas become somewhat cultish.
Listen to some of those Sirius broadcasts from the 40′s and 50′s; the audiences had paid to have a good time and if they were excited by the appearance of Ms. Kirsten or Mr. Corelli in “Tosca,” they applauded. When Violetta died movingly, they reacted not just with their silent tears but with kinetic response as well.
But three generations of tyrannical hushers have imposed on us an artificial code of manners. As a for instance, we are not to aqpplaud after an individual movement of a symphony “so as not to break the mood.” So instead we sit and listen to 90 seconds of re-tuning and watch the brass drip spit out of their valves. Very mood-presrving, I’m sure. Or on another level, that announcement from the stage, “Please do not applaud, as today’s performance is being recorded for release by the Smegma label.” Holy crap, I paid $140 to fucking SIT!?!?!?!
I say audiences should take back their natural function. The show is being put on for your benefit — not just your money, but for your enjoyment. If you are thrilled, show it

By: OlivePratt

OlivePratt — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:07:27 +0000

Arianna, I think the Met audiences are very loyal. They stayed with all the Met stalwarts till the last, and as for the “small” niche, as you put it of die hard fans for Millo, her performances were the best sold of the Gioconda and Chenier runs a few years back. The public knows the name, and Urmana was the Gioconda and received great press and the night I heard her the house was 2/3rds full, so I do believe the Met audiences do love their “lieblings”.

More to the bad side is the complete lack from Volpe on to doing anything to honor singers. Charlie Anthony bid goodbye to a career of almost 3,000 performances the other night at Turandot, and NO ONE came from the front office.

No titles are given to the singers at this house or any other in the United States, so for some the affection of the public is all they are gonna get. Dessay and Florez and the new ilk, good point to ask if anyone will flock loyally to hear anything without Gelb’s press pushes.

By: BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK

BETSY_ANN_BOBOLINK — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:00:04 +0000

Even so, Manou, I unthinkingly dragged you into the line of fire and for that I apologize.