Comments on: American Beauty Rosenkavalier

By: CerquettiFarrell

CerquettiFarrell — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:44:49 +0000

Salome or Zalome -- the Hebrew name is Shlomit LOL.

I know it’s late in the thread and kinda off topic, but I can’t resist but post this delicious clip of a fabulous Canadian singer, Karina Gauvin. I think she’d be a fantastic Sophie for the MET

As for Marschallin’s how about Geraldine Mcgreevy?

By: Krunoslav

Krunoslav — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:44:27 +0000

“And she looks a bit like Jocelyn Wildenstein.”

Ah, the unkindest cut of all!

By: MontyNostry

MontyNostry — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:43:45 +0000

Sanford, have you noticed that Marilyn Zschau does the ‘letterbox’ thing with her mouth that Leontyne did later in her career? Her sound is dark and exciting, but the words do get a bit mangled. And she looks a bit like Jocelyn Wildenstein.

By: Sanford

Sanford — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:50:18 +0000

And I heard her at the LOC in Lady Macbeth of Mtsensnk back in the early 80s. She was stupdendous.

By: Krunoslav

Krunoslav — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:50:52 +0000

“Even better was [Barstow's] “Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk,” but that’s a whole other thread.”

Well, actually, though she was highly competent, had you seen the unforgettable Anja Silja in the prior SFO revival of that production, I bet you wouldn’t think quite so highly of Barstow’s portrayal, either as acting or singing.

Kind of like Marton’s Elisabeth in relation to Rysanek’s…

By: Cocky Kurwenal

Cocky Kurwenal — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:01:07 +0000

Squirrel @ #40 – thank you.

By: sfmike

sfmike — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:38:08 +0000

I don’t know who veered this bizarre thread onto Josephine Barstow as “Zalome,” but I actually saw her perform the role at the San Francisco Opera in the late 1970s/early 1980s, and it’s the only time I’ve been able to abide that opera. She was beyond great.

Even better was her “Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk,” but that’s a whole other thread.

By: The Vicar of John Wakefield

The Vicar of John Wakefield — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:49:57 +0000

Yes, Dame Jo’s splendid Salome showed the path for the world-class interpretations of Helen Field, Janice Watson and Elizabeth Byrne.

By: MontyNostry

MontyNostry — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:10:27 +0000

Salome, Elektra, it’s all in the family.

I heard a broadcast of the recording of the final scene from Elektra with Borkh and Schech under Boehm the other day. Stunning! Schech’s sound is not very sexy, but, boy, was she getting all the notes, and Borkh is magnificent, even if the voice is a bit throaty and granular. She definitely has somethin’ goin’ on there. And Boehm’s conducting was fantastic. I’m afraid it shows just what a row Solti’s version is, Birgit notwithstanding.

By: CruzSF

CruzSF — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:03:09 +0000

Isn’t that how Elektra ends, too?

By: MontyNostry

MontyNostry — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:58:23 +0000

Before the Vicar gets there, Barstow was also English National Opera’s reigning Salome in the 1970s in a Joachim Herz production. I think it ended with her dying of a heart attack rather than being crushed by the guards. Either way, she probably looked good and sounded uningratiating, but artful, as usual.

By: CruzSF

CruzSF — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:50:09 +0000

Will do.

By: squirrel

squirrel — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:47:20 +0000

ask your friend how to say Salzburg

By: CruzSF

CruzSF — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:42:27 +0000

This “Sophie/Salome” discussion is riling me, for some reason. Maybe because I was once corrected in public for saying “Turandoh” by a hardcore Turandot-ist.

For me, my one German speaking opera friend has always said “Zalome.” But I have a German speaking co-worker, and I asked her to pronounce “Salome,” which she did with an “s” sound. When I wrote out “Siegfried” and asked her to pronounce it, she used the ‘z’ sound. I asked her to explain and, like another commenter, she said that “Salome” is an imported word for German and so follows the pronunciation of the original language.

Maybe the ‘z’ is easier to sing. I don’t know. I try not to sing to preserve my own ears.

By: squirrel

squirrel — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:07:14 +0000

yeah with all due respect to cieca and unnamed german opera professionals, I think ssalome is perfectly sssingable, just as any word with a consonant at the beginning in perfectly sssingable.

for example, both Turandot and… Turandoh.

shall we call you La ZZhieka?

By: mrmyster

mrmyster — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:52:33 +0000

Cieca: I have just been at the Steinway trying
zzalome vs. salome. In my very Herodesque tenor
there is no difference. But I’ll ask Regina Safaty
tomorrow and see what she thinks – a famous
Oktavian! Such a lovely person to have living here
in the Mountains of the West!
How I do value the postings of the Vicar of Wakefield!
He is a treasure, an ornament to our discourse, and
of course we’ve come to rely upon him for the latest
from Britain. Such as Miss Barstow! (Is she still living?)
Vicar, how would you feel about an exchange of
email addresses so we may converse pvtly.????
Mme. La Cieca has my permission to give it you.
cheerio
MrM

By: The Vicar of John Wakefield

The Vicar of John Wakefield — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:40:15 +0000

Barstow was a capital Rose-Bearer.

By: La Cieca

La Cieca — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:21:04 +0000

squirrel: I think most (German) singers would tell you that “Zalome” is easier to sing. The most important point (as with Turandot/Turandoh) is that it’s sung consistently across the production.

By: squirrel

squirrel — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:14:08 +0000

never seen nor heard this, but I’d love to!

the master would have been a 78, which is likely worn out from many re-releasing.

thanks for the tip!

By: mrmyster

mrmyster — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:08:10 +0000

Anyone remember Tiana Lemnitz as Octavian, on DGG, singing Oct.’s
final solo rising cadence, “Spur’nur dich allein….?” She goes to the
most melting G I have ever heard, then portamentos the phrase down to thelower line as she is joined by Erna Berger’s Sophie for the final measures. I thought for a moment last night that Susan was going to give us that, but her G seemed very tentative. Maybe it will develop over the run; she certainly had the right idea.
Incidetnally, the best sound for the Lemnitz/Berger/Krauss is still the original DGG yellow label 78s; subsequent transfers have attenuated the sonics rather much. Very sad. That is a definitive recording.

By: squirrel

squirrel — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:50:12 +0000

kurwenal –
because I said so? seriously, why would it be pronounced ZZ? Because your german teacher told you to pronounce all s’s like that? Seltsam, So, Singen all work according to that rule, but proper nouns are different. Siegmund is ziegmund indeed, but it’s a more native German word. Salome is a borrowed word, first from Hebrew or something (god knows) and then more directly from French.

anyone who has another take on it is welcome to (politely) chime in.

By: mrmyster

mrmyster — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:12:42 +0000

squirrel – you are so right about this; give anyone two rehearsals with the orchestra, and it’s his show musically speaking.
I’ve seen de Waart rehearse an orchestra many times in SFE and heard his Mozart and Strauss, and it does not take long at all for him to imprint the performance — he’s cleaner, lighter in texture, a bit swifter at times than Levine (or late Levine), and he is, in the best sense, more of a “theatre” conductor — he understands a given opera is a show — the show is on stage, it does not center in the pit. I expect you know what I mean.
Scazzasofija, if I say may say my dear, don’t take it all so seriously. I don’t myself and I try not to take myself very seriously, dontcha know? No reason to be defensive about my comments — I surely respect you and intended nothing personal. It’s just that I go back to Irene Jessner and Eleanor Steber in Der R., and can’t help myself.
Cheerio. MrM

By: Cocky Kurwenal

Cocky Kurwenal — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:50:33 +0000

Squirrel @ #37 – why?

By: squirrel

squirrel — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:44:30 +0000

language coaches and particularly astute native speakers (I hesitate to say any native speaker because we know what a can of worms that is!) would recommend Ms Steber change her mind, and pronounce is SSALOME instead of Zalome. The truth is in the middle and leans more toward the former.

SSalome. I stand by it!

By: squirrel

squirrel — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:42:58 +0000

I agree with Arianna, it’s naive to think this is LEVINE’S production as though Levine had even asserted himself in rehearsals so much, laying down the law about how things should go etc. Esp with the Met orchestra in the pit…
Whoever is conducting that night – it’s THEIR Rosenkavalier.

By: Arianna a Nasso

Arianna a Nasso — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:53:10 +0000

@scazzasofija @32

Interesting idea, but I’m not sure it’s quite so clear. Solti grew up in the same Central European tradition as Kleiber. He was music director in Munich and then Frankfurt for over a decade combined before going to Covent Garden. I would be surprised if working in London caused him to change his interpretation of Rosenkavalier which would have been formed by conducting the opera in Germany.

Is Kna’s handling of this piece as broad as his Wagner or fleeter a la C. Kleiber?

By: Gualtier M

Gualtier M — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:38:47 +0000

I wanted to post a picture – which I couldn’t figure out how to do in the last version. How do I do it now?

By: Sanford

Sanford — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:30:41 +0000

scazza, after the http add a v… httpv:// etc etc. That will embed the video

By: @scazzasofija

@scazzasofija — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:30:01 +0000

Anyway, why is there such a problem with my feeling that the Germans do this opera differently than the US/UK? On DVD Kiri & Solti are just slower and more restrained than Kleiber & Jones. I’m surprised since this is pretty obvious.

By: @scazzasofija

@scazzasofija — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:25:33 +0000

Arianna a Nasso then you would be surprised too see the occasional push and pull from the singers to de Waart for tempo. Renee definitely wanted her slower tempos at times (beginning of the trio, he definitely was trying tog et her to go faster). Obviously Levine would have indulged her in that, it didn’t look like de Waart had much choice.

Keep in mind the preparation staff is Levine’s. I know some of the coaches and they know exactly what Levine wants. That is how they prepare the singers. So yes, I still think it would be hard to retrain them, and I think it’s not really what de Waart was called on to do.

He did a wonderful job, & thankfully not as sappy as Levine would have conducted many stretches of this opera.