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	<title>Comments on: Gay wrestling</title>
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	<description>where opera is king and you, the readers, are queens</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:51:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Sanford</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-9/#comment-77037</link>
		<dc:creator>Sanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 23:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-77037</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m shocked that anyone could quibble about whether or not Polanski drugged a 13 year old. She was not old enough to make that choice, and there is virtually no difference between Polanksi giving her drugs and the pusher who hangs out next to school playgrounds to sell drugs to kids. And frankly, He&#039;s a genius. I personally feel had he gone to trial, he would have faced far worse consequences than he did with the plea deal; I don&#039;t think anyone in their right mind would have acquitted him. So he made a plea agreement and than fled, and wound up not facing any consequences at all. Yes, it&#039;s true that he left behind his adopted country. But he went to France, not some Third World country, and he continued right on with his career and won an Oscar. I don&#039;t see that he&#039;s really paid much of a price. Until now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m shocked that anyone could quibble about whether or not Polanski drugged a 13 year old. She was not old enough to make that choice, and there is virtually no difference between Polanksi giving her drugs and the pusher who hangs out next to school playgrounds to sell drugs to kids. And frankly, He&#8217;s a genius. I personally feel had he gone to trial, he would have faced far worse consequences than he did with the plea deal; I don&#8217;t think anyone in their right mind would have acquitted him. So he made a plea agreement and than fled, and wound up not facing any consequences at all. Yes, it&#8217;s true that he left behind his adopted country. But he went to France, not some Third World country, and he continued right on with his career and won an Oscar. I don&#8217;t see that he&#8217;s really paid much of a price. Until now.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Holland</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-9/#comment-77026</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Holland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-77026</guid>
		<description>This looks interesting, a new Alan Bennett play: 

&lt;i&gt;Benjamin Britten, sailing uncomfortably close to the wind with his new opera, Death in Venice, seeks advice from his former collaborator and friend, W H Auden. During this imagined meeting, their first for twenty-five years, they are observed and interrupted by, amongst others, their future biographer and a young man from the local bus station&lt;/i&gt;

The &quot;young man from the local bus station&quot; is obviously for Auden.

One of the major disappointments for me with the failure of Gerard Mortier&#039;s plans at City Opera was the cancellation of the amazing Deborah Warner production of &lt;i&gt;Death in Venice&lt;/i&gt;, which I saw at ENO two years ago. It had very effective use of light and shade and some great dancing for a change.  DiV is creeping in to the standard rep too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This looks interesting, a new Alan Bennett play: </p>
<p><i>Benjamin Britten, sailing uncomfortably close to the wind with his new opera, Death in Venice, seeks advice from his former collaborator and friend, W H Auden. During this imagined meeting, their first for twenty-five years, they are observed and interrupted by, amongst others, their future biographer and a young man from the local bus station</i></p>
<p>The &#8220;young man from the local bus station&#8221; is obviously for Auden.</p>
<p>One of the major disappointments for me with the failure of Gerard Mortier&#8217;s plans at City Opera was the cancellation of the amazing Deborah Warner production of <i>Death in Venice</i>, which I saw at ENO two years ago. It had very effective use of light and shade and some great dancing for a change.  DiV is creeping in to the standard rep too.</p>
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		<title>By: kashania</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-9/#comment-76999</link>
		<dc:creator>kashania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76999</guid>
		<description>Henry Holland:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;That people still debate whether Britten is a great opera composer (he is) and whether his operas are standard rep (some are) is unreal to me.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Amen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry Holland:</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>That people still debate whether Britten is a great opera composer (he is) and whether his operas are standard rep (some are) is unreal to me.</p></blockquote>
<p>Amen!</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Holland</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-9/#comment-76994</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Holland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76994</guid>
		<description>First opera ever attended: Britten&#039;s &lt;i&gt;A Midsummer Night&#039;s Dream&lt;/i&gt;, Los Angeles, 1988
First opera recording bought: Britten&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Peter Grimes&lt;/i&gt;, the Decca Britten/Pears, bought the day after attending the &lt;i&gt;Dream&lt;/i&gt;

That people still debate whether Britten is a great opera composer (he is) and whether his opera&#039;s are standard rep (some are) is unreal to me.  &lt;i&gt;Grimes, Budd&lt;/i&gt; and the &lt;i&gt;Dream&lt;/i&gt; are secure and so are the &lt;i&gt;Screw&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Albert Herring&lt;/i&gt;, a favorite of small companies and colleges.

I&#039;ve seen at least one production of every one of his operas and one thing is abundantly clear: Britten had a major gift for writing for the stage.  His sense of pacing, of being able to paint a mood with a stroke of orchestral color or a phrase, of text setting (by far the best setter of English ever), being able to conjure up vivid characters quickly, of setting and maintaining a mood are incredible.  Give me &lt;i&gt;Billy Budd&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Turn of the Screw&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Death in Venice&lt;/i&gt; over the rum-ti-tum florid nonsense of *shudder* Donizetti *shudder*, Rossini, Bellini and early Verdi any day.

I love that Britten&#039;s operas make people uncomfortable and creeped out. I also that he didn&#039;t bow to pressure and add female voices/trouser roles to &lt;i&gt;Billy Budd&lt;/i&gt;, what a pleasure to have a full-length opera and not to have to hear a soprano for once.  One thing I&#039;ve not seen mentioned is that people tend to think to that Britten is &quot;lusting&quot; after the apprentice and Miles and so on, but it&#039;s almost certain that young Ben was diddled when he was sent away to boarding school and I&#039;ve long felt that his portraits of innocence destroyed were self-portraits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First opera ever attended: Britten&#8217;s <i>A Midsummer Night&#8217;s Dream</i>, Los Angeles, 1988<br />
First opera recording bought: Britten&#8217;s <i>Peter Grimes</i>, the Decca Britten/Pears, bought the day after attending the <i>Dream</i></p>
<p>That people still debate whether Britten is a great opera composer (he is) and whether his opera&#8217;s are standard rep (some are) is unreal to me.  <i>Grimes, Budd</i> and the <i>Dream</i> are secure and so are the <i>Screw</i> and <i>Albert Herring</i>, a favorite of small companies and colleges.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen at least one production of every one of his operas and one thing is abundantly clear: Britten had a major gift for writing for the stage.  His sense of pacing, of being able to paint a mood with a stroke of orchestral color or a phrase, of text setting (by far the best setter of English ever), being able to conjure up vivid characters quickly, of setting and maintaining a mood are incredible.  Give me <i>Billy Budd</i>, <i>Turn of the Screw</i> and <i>Death in Venice</i> over the rum-ti-tum florid nonsense of *shudder* Donizetti *shudder*, Rossini, Bellini and early Verdi any day.</p>
<p>I love that Britten&#8217;s operas make people uncomfortable and creeped out. I also that he didn&#8217;t bow to pressure and add female voices/trouser roles to <i>Billy Budd</i>, what a pleasure to have a full-length opera and not to have to hear a soprano for once.  One thing I&#8217;ve not seen mentioned is that people tend to think to that Britten is &#8220;lusting&#8221; after the apprentice and Miles and so on, but it&#8217;s almost certain that young Ben was diddled when he was sent away to boarding school and I&#8217;ve long felt that his portraits of innocence destroyed were self-portraits.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-9/#comment-76971</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76971</guid>
		<description>Of course, people are forgetting to throw Noye&#039;s Fludde and The Little Sweep into the mix,of Brittens fascination of casting  &#039;little boys in opera&#039;.Plus Miles&#039; uncle in Turn of the Screw is undisputedly gay.
If people want to see straight out &#039;a explicit interpretation&#039; of the Turn of the Screw&#039; just go to the Philips made video  with actors (in Rumania?) to accompany the soundtrack used for the vinyl/ CD recording release. The opening filmed scenes depicting what went on happily  with Quint and Miles, before Quint&#039;s death, (pre the opening of the opera score) is &#039;hardly vague&#039;.

Whether Britten openly put such &#039;strange attraction /or fascination of chldrens&#039; antics into real action, no will never know. The outcome that people would best like to remember it ,is :he turned it in benign action, writing works exploring aspects of it. Then though, if people delve into what is plainly before you, discussing the subject openly : people become &#039;queasy&#039;.Unfortunately for his own posterity, he never wrote an opera with passionate moments for a female to put people &#039;off the scent&#039;. 

The big wrestling match in Britten&#039;s operas is between the 2 tantalizing &#039;opposing hints&#039; ever present, and struggling. That of (a) inner repression and (b) the unrequited, ...the need for open full expression.
Sums up Britten himself exactly.

Mirrored in just one photograph taken by Vogue once, in an article:  what was supposedly Britten&#039;s bedroom .......making  great point of a  bed ( a single bed). People know it was complete rot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, people are forgetting to throw Noye&#8217;s Fludde and The Little Sweep into the mix,of Brittens fascination of casting  &#8216;little boys in opera&#8217;.Plus Miles&#8217; uncle in Turn of the Screw is undisputedly gay.<br />
If people want to see straight out &#8216;a explicit interpretation&#8217; of the Turn of the Screw&#8217; just go to the Philips made video  with actors (in Rumania?) to accompany the soundtrack used for the vinyl/ CD recording release. The opening filmed scenes depicting what went on happily  with Quint and Miles, before Quint&#8217;s death, (pre the opening of the opera score) is &#8216;hardly vague&#8217;.</p>
<p>Whether Britten openly put such &#8216;strange attraction /or fascination of chldrens&#8217; antics into real action, no will never know. The outcome that people would best like to remember it ,is :he turned it in benign action, writing works exploring aspects of it. Then though, if people delve into what is plainly before you, discussing the subject openly : people become &#8216;queasy&#8217;.Unfortunately for his own posterity, he never wrote an opera with passionate moments for a female to put people &#8216;off the scent&#8217;. </p>
<p>The big wrestling match in Britten&#8217;s operas is between the 2 tantalizing &#8216;opposing hints&#8217; ever present, and struggling. That of (a) inner repression and (b) the unrequited, &#8230;the need for open full expression.<br />
Sums up Britten himself exactly.</p>
<p>Mirrored in just one photograph taken by Vogue once, in an article:  what was supposedly Britten&#8217;s bedroom &#8230;&#8230;.making  great point of a  bed ( a single bed). People know it was complete rot.</p>
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		<title>By: manou</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-9/#comment-76967</link>
		<dc:creator>manou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76967</guid>
		<description>Instead of the Heff, La Cieca could have linked to

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/6258090/Frank-Johnson-why-being-clasped-by-Maria-Callas-was-my-finest-hour.html

which is elegantly written and great fun.

But less provocative, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of the Heff, La Cieca could have linked to</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/6258090/Frank-Johnson-why-being-clasped-by-Maria-Callas-was-my-finest-hour.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/6258090/Frank-Johnson-why-being-clasped-by-Maria-Callas-was-my-finest-hour.html</a></p>
<p>which is elegantly written and great fun.</p>
<p>But less provocative, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: La marquise de Merteuil</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-9/#comment-76964</link>
		<dc:creator>La marquise de Merteuil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76964</guid>
		<description>Pls see 67.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pls see 67.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76959</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76959</guid>
		<description>I just want to correct Alexthymia in her comment 49 if she thought I, in (comment 39) was trying o make out any case for liberalizing the matter of sex and children. Lady, you are way off the mark. I simply gave a report of a situation where someone had indeliable impressions of sexual fantasies of intimacy, at age 7 using a a perfectly innocent adult as his own created &#039;role model&#039; A person who showed no untowards sign whatsoever to him, as that child. I was showing that children in a era, when shielded from all talk of sex, in fact completely ignorant of &#039;how babies are made&#039; still had 
instinctive &#039;sexual impulses&#039;. 
What happens after such situations, I was not in any way advocating. I was just stating what actually did. Make what you want of it.

Well Alexthymia :Lady, you have me so wiled up at your off the mark accusations I now will reveal who the child was. IT WAS ME! That blows your hysterical argument and conjecture right out of the door!
Print it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to correct Alexthymia in her comment 49 if she thought I, in (comment 39) was trying o make out any case for liberalizing the matter of sex and children. Lady, you are way off the mark. I simply gave a report of a situation where someone had indeliable impressions of sexual fantasies of intimacy, at age 7 using a a perfectly innocent adult as his own created &#8216;role model&#8217; A person who showed no untowards sign whatsoever to him, as that child. I was showing that children in a era, when shielded from all talk of sex, in fact completely ignorant of &#8216;how babies are made&#8217; still had<br />
instinctive &#8216;sexual impulses&#8217;.<br />
What happens after such situations, I was not in any way advocating. I was just stating what actually did. Make what you want of it.</p>
<p>Well Alexthymia :Lady, you have me so wiled up at your off the mark accusations I now will reveal who the child was. IT WAS ME! That blows your hysterical argument and conjecture right out of the door!<br />
Print it!</p>
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		<title>By: armerjacquino</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76954</link>
		<dc:creator>armerjacquino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76954</guid>
		<description>And what is Shakespeare&#039;s motivation, and what makes it so different from Britten&#039;s?

The play is pretty unequivocal:

&#039;For Oberon is passing fell and wrath,
Because that she as her attendant hath
A lovely boy, stolen from an Indian king;
She never had so sweet a changeling;
And jealous Oberon would have the child
Knight of his train, to trace the forests wild;
But she perforce withholds the loved boy,
Crowns him with flowers and makes him all her joy&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what is Shakespeare&#8217;s motivation, and what makes it so different from Britten&#8217;s?</p>
<p>The play is pretty unequivocal:</p>
<p>&#8216;For Oberon is passing fell and wrath,<br />
Because that she as her attendant hath<br />
A lovely boy, stolen from an Indian king;<br />
She never had so sweet a changeling;<br />
And jealous Oberon would have the child<br />
Knight of his train, to trace the forests wild;<br />
But she perforce withholds the loved boy,<br />
Crowns him with flowers and makes him all her joy&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: La marquise de Merteuil</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76950</link>
		<dc:creator>La marquise de Merteuil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76950</guid>
		<description>Cieca,

My two points are:

1. BB&#039;s obsessesion with portraying children in unusual relationships in his works: Turn of Screw, Peter Grimes, DiV, etc.

2. Oberon is obsessed with getting the boy and NOT a champagne bottle full of uranium or a Maltese falcon. If the boy were a falcon or uranium I&#039;d think differently of the situation and Oberon&#039;s/BB&#039;s motivation. Shakespeare&#039;s motivation is a dif story, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cieca,</p>
<p>My two points are:</p>
<p>1. BB&#8217;s obsessesion with portraying children in unusual relationships in his works: Turn of Screw, Peter Grimes, DiV, etc.</p>
<p>2. Oberon is obsessed with getting the boy and NOT a champagne bottle full of uranium or a Maltese falcon. If the boy were a falcon or uranium I&#8217;d think differently of the situation and Oberon&#8217;s/BB&#8217;s motivation. Shakespeare&#8217;s motivation is a dif story, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: La Cieca</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76934</link>
		<dc:creator>La Cieca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76934</guid>
		<description>Marquise: I think it&#039;s important that we realize that your argument is circular. You note that Britten put an undue emphasis on relationships with children in his operas, and you use the Indian Boy as an example. Then you admit that the Indian Boy as presented in the opera receives no particular emphasis, but then you say you&#039;re sure the motif meant something special to Britten. So it seems to me that that all you&#039;re saying is that you have heard gossip about Britten&#039;s private life that makes you uncomfortable and that the fact that a character in an opera of his happens to be a young boy reminds you of that gossip. This seems to me a very insecure basis for textual criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marquise: I think it&#8217;s important that we realize that your argument is circular. You note that Britten put an undue emphasis on relationships with children in his operas, and you use the Indian Boy as an example. Then you admit that the Indian Boy as presented in the opera receives no particular emphasis, but then you say you&#8217;re sure the motif meant something special to Britten. So it seems to me that that all you&#8217;re saying is that you have heard gossip about Britten&#8217;s private life that makes you uncomfortable and that the fact that a character in an opera of his happens to be a young boy reminds you of that gossip. This seems to me a very insecure basis for textual criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: La marquise de Merteuil</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76927</link>
		<dc:creator>La marquise de Merteuil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76927</guid>
		<description>74 cara

For Shakespeare the boy may well have been a MacG - but for Britten Im sure it had another significance. At least this is my belief. Is it so important that we agree on this point?

Let&#039;s talk about Renaaay&#039;s upcoming Armida instead...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>74 cara</p>
<p>For Shakespeare the boy may well have been a MacG &#8211; but for Britten Im sure it had another significance. At least this is my belief. Is it so important that we agree on this point?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s talk about Renaaay&#8217;s upcoming Armida instead&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chester</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76923</link>
		<dc:creator>Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76923</guid>
		<description>armerjacquino #73, I agree Polanski had only to present his &quot;side&quot; to the story in a trial. As it stands now, the victim&#039;s grand jury evidence is devastating; 13-year-old girls are human beings, not toys to be used and discarded by men who believe they are above the law. 
Most of us that want Polanski to pay for his crimes are expressing the best parts of American culture, the belief in the rule of law and equality. The same way Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld should be prosecuted for their crimes, so should Polanski.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>armerjacquino #73, I agree Polanski had only to present his &#8220;side&#8221; to the story in a trial. As it stands now, the victim&#8217;s grand jury evidence is devastating; 13-year-old girls are human beings, not toys to be used and discarded by men who believe they are above the law.<br />
Most of us that want Polanski to pay for his crimes are expressing the best parts of American culture, the belief in the rule of law and equality. The same way Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld should be prosecuted for their crimes, so should Polanski.</p>
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		<title>By: La Cieca</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76919</link>
		<dc:creator>La Cieca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76919</guid>
		<description>Marquise: The Indian Boy is a MacGuffin. He could just as well be a jeweled statue of a falcon or a Champagne bottle filled with uranium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marquise: The Indian Boy is a MacGuffin. He could just as well be a jeweled statue of a falcon or a Champagne bottle filled with uranium.</p>
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		<title>By: armerjacquino</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76918</link>
		<dc:creator>armerjacquino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76918</guid>
		<description>This talk of &#039;another side to the story&#039; is pure hearsay, and it&#039;s hearsay because Polanski wanted it to be. If he had felt that his treatment was going to be unfair, he could have withdrawn his guilty plea and stood trial.

As it is, he chose to run and therefore let the guilty verdict stand. What people reckon might have happened is very very secondary to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This talk of &#8216;another side to the story&#8217; is pure hearsay, and it&#8217;s hearsay because Polanski wanted it to be. If he had felt that his treatment was going to be unfair, he could have withdrawn his guilty plea and stood trial.</p>
<p>As it is, he chose to run and therefore let the guilty verdict stand. What people reckon might have happened is very very secondary to that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruxton</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76917</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76917</guid>
		<description>Absolutely correct Noel- in the Polanski case, two people taking pills before sex is a long way from &quot;one deliberately drugging the other&quot; as the media continually reports on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely correct Noel- in the Polanski case, two people taking pills before sex is a long way from &#8220;one deliberately drugging the other&#8221; as the media continually reports on.</p>
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		<title>By: La marquise de Merteuil</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-8/#comment-76916</link>
		<dc:creator>La marquise de Merteuil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76916</guid>
		<description>65. LC

I know the Indian boy is in Shakespeare&#039;s MSD and that there is nothing about sex mentioned in relation to the boy in either play or opera. My question though is why is Oberon willing to risk his marriage for an (underaged) boy and go through all of that crap? Is it a battle of wills? To prove some point? Not too sure about his motives. 

You are right about 2nd hand gossip ... but as I said I was just saying what I heard. So I repeat, it is what I heard and not what I know for a fact to be true. 

However, all this still doesn&#039;t change what I think about her boring music though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>65. LC</p>
<p>I know the Indian boy is in Shakespeare&#8217;s MSD and that there is nothing about sex mentioned in relation to the boy in either play or opera. My question though is why is Oberon willing to risk his marriage for an (underaged) boy and go through all of that crap? Is it a battle of wills? To prove some point? Not too sure about his motives. </p>
<p>You are right about 2nd hand gossip &#8230; but as I said I was just saying what I heard. So I repeat, it is what I heard and not what I know for a fact to be true. </p>
<p>However, all this still doesn&#8217;t change what I think about her boring music though.</p>
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		<title>By: Noel Dahling</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76914</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Dahling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76914</guid>
		<description>Ruxton-I am aware of the other side to the story, and if it&#039;s true then I can understand why he ran. But I was speaking about rape in general; and if you drug someone it isn&#039;t consensual because they cant say no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruxton-I am aware of the other side to the story, and if it&#8217;s true then I can understand why he ran. But I was speaking about rape in general; and if you drug someone it isn&#8217;t consensual because they cant say no.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruxton</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76911</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 07:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76911</guid>
		<description>Noel and others- regarding Roman Polanski thing- there is another side to the story that is quite different to that portrayed in much of the media. It has everything to do with a certain Judge who saw the situation as an opportunity for self grandisment - and tried to manipulate the events that led to Polanski fleeing. Little wonder he did- if the circumstances I heard are true- I would have run too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noel and others- regarding Roman Polanski thing- there is another side to the story that is quite different to that portrayed in much of the media. It has everything to do with a certain Judge who saw the situation as an opportunity for self grandisment &#8211; and tried to manipulate the events that led to Polanski fleeing. Little wonder he did- if the circumstances I heard are true- I would have run too!</p>
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		<title>By: Noel Dahling</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76909</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Dahling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 06:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76909</guid>
		<description>#58: It&#039;s not consensual if you have to drug someone first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#58: It&#8217;s not consensual if you have to drug someone first.</p>
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		<title>By: Alto</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76900</link>
		<dc:creator>Alto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76900</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m very moderate in all aspects of my views on Britten. But I&#039;m surprised that there is debate here concerning his extraordinary interest in young boys. Just reaching up on a shelf and taking down Humphrey Carpenter&#039;s bio, I readily find:

p. 344. Britten&#039;s friendship with David Spenser lasted until 1949, when David was fifteen and beginning to shave. &quot;I was aware,&quot; David says, &quot;that whatever there had been was no longer there.&quot;

 Then it goes on to quote Britten&#039;s rather lovesick-sounding descriptions of some of the boys he cast in operas, to cite the gossip about his perceived lack of discretion with them in the English Opera Group, and to discuss  his close interest in the sons of Steuart Bedford and in other boys.

If Britten wasn&#039;t  up to something he was at least ill-judged, e.g., when filling adolescent boys up on martinis.

While some of the men who were befriended as boys by Britten declare themselves unaware of any improper attentions from the composer, some are unsure or don&#039;t recall, and some say otherwise. Jonathan Gathorne-Hardy -- who is now a gay man -- says that he feels Britten&#039;s &quot;heart and affections&quot; were with Pears but his passion was directed elsewhere. He says that Pears if anything seemed to encourage Ben&#039;s interest in boys, though others involved in friendships with Britten as boys say that he treated them very differently when Pears was there and when he wasn&#039;t. 

I have just now become weary of this subject, but there&#039;s plenty more in this bio, which I believe has been quite respected in its treatment of its subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very moderate in all aspects of my views on Britten. But I&#8217;m surprised that there is debate here concerning his extraordinary interest in young boys. Just reaching up on a shelf and taking down Humphrey Carpenter&#8217;s bio, I readily find:</p>
<p>p. 344. Britten&#8217;s friendship with David Spenser lasted until 1949, when David was fifteen and beginning to shave. &#8220;I was aware,&#8221; David says, &#8220;that whatever there had been was no longer there.&#8221;</p>
<p> Then it goes on to quote Britten&#8217;s rather lovesick-sounding descriptions of some of the boys he cast in operas, to cite the gossip about his perceived lack of discretion with them in the English Opera Group, and to discuss  his close interest in the sons of Steuart Bedford and in other boys.</p>
<p>If Britten wasn&#8217;t  up to something he was at least ill-judged, e.g., when filling adolescent boys up on martinis.</p>
<p>While some of the men who were befriended as boys by Britten declare themselves unaware of any improper attentions from the composer, some are unsure or don&#8217;t recall, and some say otherwise. Jonathan Gathorne-Hardy &#8212; who is now a gay man &#8212; says that he feels Britten&#8217;s &#8220;heart and affections&#8221; were with Pears but his passion was directed elsewhere. He says that Pears if anything seemed to encourage Ben&#8217;s interest in boys, though others involved in friendships with Britten as boys say that he treated them very differently when Pears was there and when he wasn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>I have just now become weary of this subject, but there&#8217;s plenty more in this bio, which I believe has been quite respected in its treatment of its subject.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alexythymia</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76896</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexythymia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76896</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m interested that I was the one called out for being repetitive here.  Q.v., was actually quite interested in hearing one of you learned gentlemen&#039;s assessment of Britten&#039;s ensemble writing, say, his instrumentation, his individuality as a composer, all of which I did mention :) I can take a hint, though, and will trouble you no further ... not enough time really anyway if one works for a living, lives miles from NYC and simply happens to cherish this art form ... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m interested that I was the one called out for being repetitive here.  Q.v., was actually quite interested in hearing one of you learned gentlemen&#8217;s assessment of Britten&#8217;s ensemble writing, say, his instrumentation, his individuality as a composer, all of which I did mention <img src='http://parterre.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I can take a hint, though, and will trouble you no further &#8230; not enough time really anyway if one works for a living, lives miles from NYC and simply happens to cherish this art form &#8230; <img src='http://parterre.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: La Cieca</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76895</link>
		<dc:creator>La Cieca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76895</guid>
		<description>Marquise: The Indian boy is in the Shakespeare&#039;s play, and I don&#039;t recall that Britten laid any special emphasis on that text when he set it.

&lt;I&gt;I spoke to someone about this who knew them well enough to visit with them regularly, and he thought/knew that all was not right in with Britten and the little boys.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, repeating second hand gossip is the best way to settle the matter, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marquise: The Indian boy is in the Shakespeare&#8217;s play, and I don&#8217;t recall that Britten laid any special emphasis on that text when he set it.</p>
<p><i>I spoke to someone about this who knew them well enough to visit with them regularly, and he thought/knew that all was not right in with Britten and the little boys.</i></p>
<p>Well, repeating second hand gossip is the best way to settle the matter, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: La marquise de Merteuil</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76893</link>
		<dc:creator>La marquise de Merteuil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76893</guid>
		<description>45 &amp; others. 

&#039;Midsummer&#039; has a heavy paedo theme - with Oberon after that little Indian boy. DiV! Also in &#039;Turn of the screw&#039; with the children being (not sexually) terrorised etc. The death of the boy - and the nature of the relationship that Grimes has had with other boys who disappear/die. There is certainly a heavy light being thrown on children being hurt in one form or the other.

I have sung some of his songs and started to work on a role and gave up after Act 1. I am no pris, but I find this kind of operatic themes undesirable. 

Also, I&#039;m no Britten expert so please feel free to correct me. I spoke to someone about this who knew them well enough to visit with them regularly, and he thought/knew that all was not right in with Britten and the little boys. Also apparently his fondness of little boys really annoyed Peers? IF he were a pedarast or had tendencies I do not know this for a fact as I never knew him.

The only thing I can say with real confidence is that I find his music really dreary. This is like my opinion and I say this as someone who is passionate equally about Mozart, Wagner, A Scarlatti, Bellini, Strauss, Puccini, Monteverdi, Vivaldi, Donizetti, Handel. As far as Britten goes, the loss is clearly mine. Although I do think I&#039;m not missing much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>45 &amp; others. </p>
<p>&#8216;Midsummer&#8217; has a heavy paedo theme &#8211; with Oberon after that little Indian boy. DiV! Also in &#8216;Turn of the screw&#8217; with the children being (not sexually) terrorised etc. The death of the boy &#8211; and the nature of the relationship that Grimes has had with other boys who disappear/die. There is certainly a heavy light being thrown on children being hurt in one form or the other.</p>
<p>I have sung some of his songs and started to work on a role and gave up after Act 1. I am no pris, but I find this kind of operatic themes undesirable. </p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m no Britten expert so please feel free to correct me. I spoke to someone about this who knew them well enough to visit with them regularly, and he thought/knew that all was not right in with Britten and the little boys. Also apparently his fondness of little boys really annoyed Peers? IF he were a pedarast or had tendencies I do not know this for a fact as I never knew him.</p>
<p>The only thing I can say with real confidence is that I find his music really dreary. This is like my opinion and I say this as someone who is passionate equally about Mozart, Wagner, A Scarlatti, Bellini, Strauss, Puccini, Monteverdi, Vivaldi, Donizetti, Handel. As far as Britten goes, the loss is clearly mine. Although I do think I&#8217;m not missing much.</p>
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		<title>By: dorion</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76875</link>
		<dc:creator>dorion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 00:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76875</guid>
		<description>Lindoro Almaviva you don&#039;t have either numbers or facts on your side. You wrote that Britten matches Rossini &amp; Donizetti in the standard rep and that Bellini &quot;bests&quot; Britten. That&#039;s ridiculous. 

You can&#039;t put Capuletti in the standard rep or even Norma if you&#039;re going to include Lucia or Barbiere on the same list. Then there are the more popular operas than the ones by Bellini, Fille du Regiment, L&#039;elisir, Cenerentola and Don Pasquale. Let&#039;s not even mention revivals of Lucrezia Borgia or the Three Queens. Britten doesn&#039;t compete with Rossini &amp; Donizetti, but he does seem to be more revived than Bellini.

Last word: statutory rape is repressed puritan crap. Americans have their &quot;justice&quot; priorities all screwed up, but that&#039;s not a surprise is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindoro Almaviva you don&#8217;t have either numbers or facts on your side. You wrote that Britten matches Rossini &amp; Donizetti in the standard rep and that Bellini &#8220;bests&#8221; Britten. That&#8217;s ridiculous. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t put Capuletti in the standard rep or even Norma if you&#8217;re going to include Lucia or Barbiere on the same list. Then there are the more popular operas than the ones by Bellini, Fille du Regiment, L&#8217;elisir, Cenerentola and Don Pasquale. Let&#8217;s not even mention revivals of Lucrezia Borgia or the Three Queens. Britten doesn&#8217;t compete with Rossini &amp; Donizetti, but he does seem to be more revived than Bellini.</p>
<p>Last word: statutory rape is repressed puritan crap. Americans have their &#8220;justice&#8221; priorities all screwed up, but that&#8217;s not a surprise is it?</p>
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		<title>By: CruzSF</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76857</link>
		<dc:creator>CruzSF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76857</guid>
		<description>ellerveira and someone at #24 did discuss the quality of Britten&#039;s music, not the specific contents of the standard rep. It this point that I was addressing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ellerveira and someone at #24 did discuss the quality of Britten&#8217;s music, not the specific contents of the standard rep. It this point that I was addressing.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lindoro Almaviva</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-7/#comment-76856</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindoro Almaviva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76856</guid>
		<description>dorion:

Do you know what standard repertoire means? Operabase is a wonderful research database, but 4 performances of Rossini&#039;s Zelmira hardly make that opera a standard repertory opera. 

Britten has 3 operas in the standard international repertoire. These operas receive a fair number of performances in varied venues around the world.

Bellini has also 3 operas in the standard repertoire and it seems that Capuletti if getting a foothold, as opposed to being something that is revived every 10-15 years and then put back on the shelf. That will make it 4 operas in the standard rep and thus 1 more than Britten and I think quite a good reason to say he bests Britten in the number of operas in the international repertoire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dorion:</p>
<p>Do you know what standard repertoire means? Operabase is a wonderful research database, but 4 performances of Rossini&#8217;s Zelmira hardly make that opera a standard repertory opera. </p>
<p>Britten has 3 operas in the standard international repertoire. These operas receive a fair number of performances in varied venues around the world.</p>
<p>Bellini has also 3 operas in the standard repertoire and it seems that Capuletti if getting a foothold, as opposed to being something that is revived every 10-15 years and then put back on the shelf. That will make it 4 operas in the standard rep and thus 1 more than Britten and I think quite a good reason to say he bests Britten in the number of operas in the international repertoire.</p>
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		<title>By: Vox</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-6/#comment-76852</link>
		<dc:creator>Vox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76852</guid>
		<description>Methinks I smell a troll...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Methinks I smell a troll&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: brooklynpunk</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-6/#comment-76851</link>
		<dc:creator>brooklynpunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76851</guid>
		<description>&quot;Rape” is language used by people with dirt and prejudice on their minds. They see sex as something disgusting, like the Puritans of 500 years ago. Sex creates life, that’s why we exist.
Consensual sex between an older and a younger person isn’t rape, unless you’re in America of course...&quot;
-----------------------------
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury...I rest my case. in the SANE World vs. Dorion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Rape” is language used by people with dirt and prejudice on their minds. They see sex as something disgusting, like the Puritans of 500 years ago. Sex creates life, that’s why we exist.<br />
Consensual sex between an older and a younger person isn’t rape, unless you’re in America of course&#8230;&#8221;<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury&#8230;I rest my case. in the SANE World vs. Dorion&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dorion</title>
		<link>http://parterre.com/2009/10/03/gay-wrestlin/comment-page-6/#comment-76850</link>
		<dc:creator>dorion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://parterre.com/?p=5715#comment-76850</guid>
		<description>CruzSF the discussion had NOTHING to do with the quality of the music of Britten or others, but about what is or isn&#039;t considered standard rep.

&quot;Rape&quot; is language used by people with dirt and prejudice on their minds. They see sex as something disgusting, like the Puritans of 500 years ago. Sex creates life, that&#039;s why we exist.

Consensual sex between an older and a younger person isn&#039;t rape, unless you&#039;re in America of course, where it&#039;s okay to drop an atomic bomb and incinerate 300,000 civilians but it&#039;s an outrage to have a costume malfunction and show your boobs on national TV, God forbid.

And a plea deal isn&#039;t a deal until a judge honors it. Polanski had one, he had spent time in jail already as a result of the deal, being &quot;evaluated&quot;. Then the judge changed the rules in the middle of the game, backstabbing him. 

This affair only helps to expose the American society, justice and culture as the corrupt and decadent institutions that they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CruzSF the discussion had NOTHING to do with the quality of the music of Britten or others, but about what is or isn&#8217;t considered standard rep.</p>
<p>&#8220;Rape&#8221; is language used by people with dirt and prejudice on their minds. They see sex as something disgusting, like the Puritans of 500 years ago. Sex creates life, that&#8217;s why we exist.</p>
<p>Consensual sex between an older and a younger person isn&#8217;t rape, unless you&#8217;re in America of course, where it&#8217;s okay to drop an atomic bomb and incinerate 300,000 civilians but it&#8217;s an outrage to have a costume malfunction and show your boobs on national TV, God forbid.</p>
<p>And a plea deal isn&#8217;t a deal until a judge honors it. Polanski had one, he had spent time in jail already as a result of the deal, being &#8220;evaluated&#8221;. Then the judge changed the rules in the middle of the game, backstabbing him. </p>
<p>This affair only helps to expose the American society, justice and culture as the corrupt and decadent institutions that they are.</p>
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