Another poll, this time asking which events are the absolute must-sees here in New York this spring. Please note that on this poll you can choose more than one "must-see," which is a good thing, because
everything looks most tempting!
Labels: met, nyco, oony, poll
118 Comments:
You absolutely have to see Satyagraha. Forget any qualms you might have about its novelty, or musical weirdness. It is theatre at its best, sublime and mesmerising. Miss it, regret it and I will say 'told you so'.
please tel us more about why you feel that way. I am absolutely not being sarcastic or rude. Your comments intrigued me and I would like to know who you are.
I completely agree with Geraldine. I think Satyagraha is one of Glass' best operas (if not musical works on the whole). Meditative, simultaneously minimalist and grand, its balance between modern and traditional is stunning. Can't wait to hear that one. Hopefully it'll wash out the lingering aftertaste of Crappomatox.
http://cultureonthecheap.wordpress.com
"La Fille du Regiment" was a colossal bore at Covent Garden. There's not much music in it, and Dessay is so in love with her own performance it's embarrasing. Juan Diego Florez throws away his top Cs with delightful ease, and makes as little of the aria as possible -- and that's not worth putting up with all the other dross for. The best thing was Tonio's beautiful aria in Act II, which JDF sang with such new-found emotional heft that it was genuinely moving -- but by then the tedium has become unbearable. Give it a miss and listen to some old Renee Fleming CDs.
Natalie Dessay is a real actor and based on her body of work, your remarks are completely false. It is like saying Leontyne Price is not as good a singer as she thinks she is. You have an agenda. There is nothing wrong with that, so long as you are aware of it. There is NO WAY that Dessay would do onstage what you are claiming. I am not calling you a liar. I am sure you are expressing your opinion truthfully. But as I said you have an agenda. Measuring someone's acting chops is not a matter of opinion.
Josh, it's funny you say Dessay is a real actor...I mean, she is a singer afterall...I agree with Charlie (and I have no agenda)...I saw her in NYC do Hoffman and Ariadne...History making performances...Sadly, those days are gone for her...Too much smoking, I guess...But it's interesting how she pushes the whole "acting" thing...We'll see how that goes...I'm sure she'll ping-pong back to singing after theatergoers realize she ain't such a good "actress".
Measuring someone's acting chops is a matture of opinion and so is measuring someone's particular enjoyment. You are absolutely entitled to enjoy Natalie Dessay, but charlie b is certainly entitled to find her and the opera a bore. I am also not a fan of Dessay. I adore lyric-coloraturas. I cut my teeth in my teens on Roberta Peters, Erika Koth, Hilda Gueden, and Annaliese Rothenberger. When I went to college, I fell in love with Moffo. I discovered Caballe, Sills, and Sutherland. While I think Dessay might have been in their league 10 years ago, I don't think she is anymore. Of today's crop, I think Diana Damrau and Annick Massis can sing rings around Dessay and I thought Netrebko's acting in Puritani yesterday on PBS was marvelous. I don't have an agenda for saying any of that except to defend my right to say it and feel that way. I would also defend your right just as vehemently if someone disparaged you for disagreeing with them.
I happened to Like Appomatox. Okay, I didn't love it, but it wasn't a waste of my time.
Guys--I have to stick to my guns. First of all, in the theatre world we use the term 'actor' for both genders. Furthermore, the level of enjoyment is dependent on a person's knowledge. I am not suggesting that anyone here in particular is not knowlegeable, but I teach acting for a living (and I have for many years) and Dessay acts like an actor...not like an opera singer...that is a tremendous achievement IN OPERA, which has a very artificial time element. It is one thing to dismiss Dessay as not so great a singer. It is quite another thing to disregard her acting. She is highly skilled. Acting as an artform is completely directed outward at one's fellow actor onstage. In other words, the joy of acting is being immersed in the other actor and what they give you. Dessay does that and does it brilliantly. To say that she was in love with her own acting insinuates that she was disconnected from the other actors. Such a claim is the definition of bad acting. Why don't we all show dvds of her work to accredited theatre artists and ask them if they consider it good acting. I would be shocked if they did not. On the Charlie Rose interview where she praised Joan Sutherland for her singing and said that she was not an actor, is not a mean statement. It is the truth. Joan Sutherland is La Stupenda. Her singing is beyond belief, her stage presence was tremendous, her powers of creating excitement in the theatre were amazing BUT she was not an actor. Dessay with far less of an instrument (not even in the same league as Sutherland)IS an actor. I don't think that people who come into opera from only a musical perspective really know what defines acting. I don't mean to be nasty or mean, but these assesments of Dessay as an actor, I strongly believe has to do with the fact that certain people are nervous about opera going into a more theatical realm. The prospects are exciting and scary. But just because one worries about the future of the voice in opera does not make Dessay a bad actor.
To say that Dessay's acting was in love with itself, is like saying that a professional opera singer sang a whole performace half tone flat. Is is not possible.
i wouldn't have minded dessay's comments if she could still sing. Her Lucia was a BORE, even with her convincing, if a bit hyper, acting. Damrau could have been marvelous, both as an actress and as a singer. Its so sad how the MET under-utilizes talent until it's over the hill ala dessay. She sang like what, 7 performances before the juliette's two years ago, when her voice was already in audible decline.
so you would go as far as to say that Dessay can't sing. Is that what you are saying? You thought her Lucia was the work of someone who could not sing! Is that what you are saying? I bet you are the SAVIOUR modern voice. This is stupid. I am arguing with people who are set in their ways. Don't you that the opera train bypassed you. You belong to the past and it is over. I guess I have an agenda too.
scifisci--
her lucia was a bore and your commentary is oh so fascinating--you are an idiot
sharon:
when I find myself wanting to be elsewhere during an opera performance, then i am bored. plain and simple. and no, one 15 minute mad-scene does not a opera make. Dessay was not helped by the production, however, for a diva-role like lucia, it shouldn't have to. and yes, i suppose my comments are boring because i don't sprinkle them with personal attacks against people i don't know.....
Josh: For someone with "no agenda" you certainly have some strong opinions and vitriol. Oh and if i belong to the past, then you most definitely belong to ancient history
Josh, the fact that you teach acting simply means little here. It's great you teach acting, but please, keep it to yourself. Dessay is a professional and we, the paying public, get to say what we believe. Last I heard, I do not need a Ph.D to go to the opera and understand it and form an opinion based on what I saw and heard.
I enjoy most of the conversation that goes on on this blog, and I almost never comment because I prefer to observe, but Sharon, I am so tired of seeing your name under the "comments" section followed by attacks on people with no actual substance regarding the topic at hand.
I don't know what your deal is, but you are ruining the spirit of Parterre, and I wish you would stick to the conversation topics and leave those posting out of it.
While I sat watching Dessay and Giordani, I thought Oh God they couldn't find fresher voices than this. I have to agree that she is not in great vocal estate after several vocal fold surgeries and a continued habit of smoking she is her own worst enemy. AS an actress I found her terribly predictable in the Lucia. To me she was a bore a well. I thought couldn't they find a better choice than this. Massis has better command vocally without a doubt but I found her cold as well. I want Lauren Flannigan to sing Lucia, at least she has the size and the acting hops and God knows she can do crazy!!!
G
scifisci--
how so?...How does that make me ancient history?
josh - i am simply commenting on the ridiculousness of your claim that i "belong to the past" because I have comparatively little "past" to be a part of, compared with you, who have been teaching acting for MANY YEARS.
and btw i am not nor have ever been an opera singer.
I am tired of arguing. You are all right. Dessay sucks and whoever is great. Bye.
I commented originally because I was surprised that "La Fille du Regiment" had such a huge lead as the must-see operatic event in New York in the coming season, and I was suggesting that it would be a serious disappointment. The real problem is with the opera - and that is where Dessay's claims about acting fall flat. She wasn't funny, she was just over the top - grimacing and shrugging, but not lending any special humour (or pathos where that was called for) to her singing. By contrast, JDF was far more amusing and touching, for all that he has a reputation of being no actor by any means!
For what it's worth, we don't need actors on the opera stage. If people can act, do it in the theatre. What opera needs is dramatically aware singers, who can carry the emotional and developmental significance of their vocal parts into their physical presence. That is very different from just "acting". Much has been written and will be written about this, but someone who acts what he sings is Jonas Kaufmann - but I am sure he would never claim to be an actor.
I went to Satyagraha not knowing the opera and not knowing Philip Glass (although I am a Steve Reich fan so it wasn't entirely uncharted territory). I have seen on Opera-L etc a lot of pre-judging of S. I am not suggesting that a great production is ever a substitute for great music, nor do I think it is great music, but it remains for me one of my highlights of 2007. Use of puppetry and stilt walkers, and how the ensemble interacted, plus all round very good singing (YMMV) all fitted in with music I enjoyed. My perception round the blogosphere was that it went down tremendously well with people I wouldn't normally associate with opera. Reading the programme on the Tube, I actually had a young man ask me about it; he was looking forward to a future performance.
Charlie B--
thanks for being honest when you said "we don't need actors on the operatic stage"...however, we do need actors. I just revisited Natalie Dessay's interview with Charlie Rose and I read the comments. There is whole world out there that gets it.
and va2ny, I am deeply sorry that you think I personally am ruining the spirit of this site. I have contributed a lot of good stuff and I have not always attacked people personally.
It really hurts to share so much of my passion for opera and to be told that I bring the level down.
there is a reason why so many people want to see La Fille du Regiment with Dessay...FIGURE IT OUT everyone
I have an idea everyone--let's all band together in favor of Annick Massis...that would solve all problems. She can sing, she can act, she can peel shrimp....why not??????? I am tired of stupid people.
I am rather intrigued by the references to an interview with Dessay by Charlie Rose. I've not seen or read this, or heard of it before. I was commenting purely on what I saw in the opera house - which I think in the theatre is called "hamming it up something awful" plus conspiring in mutual self-congratulation with the audience.
I thought the principal reason so many people wanted to see "La Fille du Regiment" was to hear Juan Diego Florez, who did after all make the mainstream press after the extraordinary encore he was obliged to provide in the same work at La Scala(the first by a tenor on that stage for decades). The problem is that there is not much more. I did think that Felicity Palmer was very good, and in her own carefully wrought fashion offered a contrast to Dessay, but it was all pretty thin and feeble stuff.
I also see that the "Fille du Regiment" score has fallen 7 percentage points since I wrote my original comment, and so is not quite such a run-away poll-topper. If I was in New York I would be very eager to see "Tristan" and "Peter Grimes" and am no less so here in England, thanks to the satellite broadcasts to a small group of cinemas (I have my tickets for both). I would very much like to see "Ernani" too - a superb score and a real dramatic challenge. But I am lucky that what would be my top choices, as it happens, will all be presented at Covent Garden - Jonas Kaufmann in "Tosca"; Don Carlo with Simon Keenlyside, Ferruccio Furlanetto and (all being well) Rolando Villazon; Harrison Birtwistle's "The Minotaur" under Antonio Pappano, with John Tomlinson and Christine Rice; and Simon Boccanegra with Nina Stemme and Marcus Haddock.
Why does everyone keep creaming themselves about Dessay and Florez anyway?
Yes, they both look good and are proficient singers, but neither of them has the kind of voice that would exactly blow you away with either amplitude or sheer beauty.
There was no doubt an absurd, oversized quality to La Fille when Joanie and Luci used to sing it (though that was before my operatic time). But whether or not they were to your taste -- or authentic/idiomatic in this kind of lightweight repertoire -- they were both phenomena. Natalie and Juan Diego are pipsqueaks by comparison.
Florez voice certainly IS sheer beauty as was Dessay's some years ago (listen to her Lakmé!).
But, wait a minute! That woman is smoking!?! I can't believe it. So we get the explanation for those countless cancellations. I will never forgive her her missed Romeo or Carnegie Hall concert last year. If it's true, she is partiuclarly stupid and don't deserve her talent. Even Montserat has to admit her voice got lower because of that disgusting habit.
Sharon,
I love the passion, and I find your comments insightful and interesting! Just leave the personal attacks out of it...far too many people are engaging in this type of banter, and it's useless.
Baritenor--
"I happened to Like Appomatox. Okay, I didn't love it, but it wasn't a waste of my time."
I guess in that sense it wasn't a waste of my time either (but to be fair, I was so excited to see something that wasn't LA Opera...so sad). It was interesting to see, and I'm a huge Glass fan, but in the end it just fell short. There was no drama in the staging or the vocal lines or the orchestral music. It was more oratorio than opera.
http://cultureonthecheap.wordpress.com
ok well clearly we see that dessay has become the new controversy in opera, You either love her or you hate her so lets talk about someone else for a change ok?
Ok - I have to say something to Sharon.
I agree that you have brought up some very interesting points, and I think it's GREAT that everyone has differing opinions here, but when you say:
"It really hurts to share so much of my passion for opera and to be told that I bring the level down."
I can only wonder what calling someone else an "idiot" has to do with sharing your passion for opera.
I disagree with people all the time. I am CERTAIN when I read some people's comments that they MUST have a tin ear, and I bet they think the same thing of me.
But The Words You Choose Matter.
Saying to someone: "You have lost all credibility and respect to me because the true nature of your weak character has been revealed" is not the same thing as saying "You are a lying piece of shit."
There are times, I grant you, where the "lying piece of shit" comment is not only more natural to say, but more accurate and appropriate, and I can't remember the last time I was in a heated argument with someone where I was able to choose my words so well as the first comment, but SERIOUSLY, don't think that responding to someone else's opinion by making a snarky comment and then calling them an idiot is not a personal attack, because it is, and it's one of the nicer comments you have made in response to someone else's opinion.
I didn't think I was going to comment on you - I was just going to ignore it - but I think that if you are genuine in your surprise that people think you are rude on this site, then you should re-read all your comments lately, and think about how they come across.
Share your passion, disagree with other people, just don't use nasty words to dismiss other people's opinions just because they differ from your own - it shuts down communication, and ends the discourse on the issue at hand, and becomes about defending one's right to have an opinion at all. Be Nice.
sugarmezzo
thanks for your thoughtful comments and I will certainly think about your advice to me. But I get so mad when people post things without substance and they are oh so sure of themselves. I think someone like TKLogan only posts to be mean and to disagree for the sake of disagreement and no one has raised issues about that. To call Dessay arrogant because she told Charlie Rose that Sutherland was not an actor...which by the way is grossly taken out of context...is IDIOTIC. It is not that I think I know everything and everyone else is wrong. But if you watch that interview with Charlie Rose regardless of your personal feelings for Dessay, you will see a woman who comes across as intelligent and more importantly TRUTHFUL. That does not mean that her turth is necessarily mine. But I am still affected by her truthfulness. Her acting is truthful. I don't mean to steer the conversation toward Dessay. I am merely using her as an example. But to be that unaware and that cluless about what rings true...well, that makes me mad. And I know that I am tactless. But my purpose is not to attack people randomly or be mean. I am just astonished by what people say. I don't admire Netrebko always. I saw her Puritani at the Met and thought it was a lackluster vocal performance. Especially when you compare it to Callas and Sutherland. But there is a legitimacy about her work that I see dismissed her all the time. People say all things being equal without her looks she would not have a career. As if looks are a liability. Dessay said in the interview with Rose that Callas lost weight to make people dream when they go to the opera. I am keenly aware of Callas' vocal technique and I don't believe that the voice should be sacrificed at the expense of other things. But come on....I have posted so many comments that were representative of my belief system and I think any one reading them would get a clue into my personality. So it is hard to think that you have to speak in a coded way. Do I make sense?
I don't understand the poll results. The percentages applied to each choice add up to way over 100%.
Anonymous,
You could pick more than 1.
Dear Sugarmezzo--
one more thing. There is this person who posts under the name 'Daniel'. He wrote recently here: 'i am not a fan of Benjamin Britten'. Well my blood started to boil. I am not saying that he should be a 'fan' of Britten BUT Benjamin Britten is a genius. Works of art enlarge us. If I don't understand a great composer chances are it is my limitation rather than the composer's. It infuriates me. Do you understand where I am coming from? To say that you are not a fan of Britten is ...well, fill in the blank
Wiith all the talk about Dessay, some info:
Natalie Dessay will do her first Violettas in Santa Fe 2009.
It's funny how people respond differently. I must have ticked off 5 or 6 different items on the poll but La fille wasn't one of them. I love Donizetti and I'm a big fan of Dessay and Florez. But that opera is a complete bore to me. I'm interested in the vocal fireworks (when sung by the likes of Sutherland/Pavarotti or on a lesser plain, Dessay/Florez) and will tune into the radio broadcast but overall, it's a big yawn for me...
Very thoughtful and well-placed comments, Sharon, and I agree that there are people who say things just to cause disagreement and to be persnickety.
And I agree with the substance of almost everything you said. I, truthfully, need to take more of my own advice when dealing with people face-to-face, and I often lament the fact that (especially in OperaWorld) I often have to bite my tongue because even though I KNOW I'm right about something, there is NO way to say it that won't piss people off. And it drives me crazy that I can't, for instance, point out the very obvious truth that I have been staged to sing upstage without being accused of being a Diva.
I would say however, that sometimes completely non-idiotic people just don't have great taste about certain things - I will use myself as an example: I can't stand reading John Steinbeck novels. I KNOW, I KNOW - I objectively can see that they are good, I understand why other people love them, and why he is such a beloved and celebrated author - I just don't enjoy reading them, and I can't explain why!! I literally could not give you an answer, I just know that every time I've ever been forced to read one for school, all I could think was - UGH. ICK. BLAH.
Anyway, that's my point - I think of myself as an educated and discerning person, but at the end of the day I openly admit that I would choose Harry Potter over Grapes of Wrath. Some people would (perhaps rightly) say that this makes me an idiot. I respectfully disagree.
I have been trying to choose my words more carefully after a long-overdue re-read of Pride and Prejudice, when Elizabeth says she was spared any feelings of remorse she might have felt in refusing Darcy had he behaved in a more "gentlemanlike manner". While I am proudly female, I was struck when I read this about the lack of "gentlemanlike" behavior we all of us have these days, and am doing my best to start with the words I choose.
Except when I talk about George Bush. He's a lying piece of shit.
strange where some discussions go ... ranging from personal attacks to limiting people's views. but hey as this is the lovely virtual world, it is ever so popular to be mean. i dont know who said it when it comes to criticism, that if u would not say it to someone face to face then dont put it in writing either.
so even though i find it somehow amusing how bloggers attack each other, it makes me sad as well as it seems noone has respect for other peoples opinions or at least is trying to lower others opinions or render them stupid. this is not meant as a criticism against anyone in particular (as i dont read every single entry) but just a main observation.
fact: likes and dislikes differ. fullstop. will always be. will never change. fullstop.
i, for one, saw fille du regiment in london as well and even though i dont like donizetti comedies i thought the production as a whole was brilliant with the leads outstandingly effective and fitting their roles well - both from stage prescence and vocally. it was one of the best and most entertaining evenings i had at the opera ... and over the last 10 years i had quite a few evenings at the opera. fille definately ranks amongst the top 5 of those.
Kashania: I'm with you there. I even love Fille, but the production just looks cheap (not cheaply produced, but cheaply interpreted). It's no Lucia or Devereux, but I really just dislike how un-feminine they made Marie. I get that she's a tomboy, but she still has a very feminine side (otherwise she wouldn't be so much in love with Tonio as she would with the Dutchess of Crackentorp).
Sharon: Being a fan of Britten and respecting his talents are two different things. With the exception of Billy Budd, I'm not a huge fan of Britten's work. I respect the fact that he's a musical genius and a major contributor to 20th Century music/opera, but that doesn't mean I'm going to purchase recordings or go see a performance. I have a friend, a great composer in his own right, who can do without Mozart. It's not that he doesn't understand the composer, quite the opposite. He understands him, but it's simply not his musical style. Why take it so seriously?
http://cultureonthecheap.wordpress.com
Well, to add my 2 cents in....
Sharon, I too have NEVER been a fan of Britten. Sorry if that offends you, but it really should NOT offend you. People like what they like, and since music (and art in general) are entirely subjective, you really can't call someone stupid for having an opinion without making yourself look like the village idiot with an anger management problem.
Why should my choice of singer or composer make your "blood boil"? My opinion does not make a singer and less great, or a composer any less brilliant. It is simply a matter of taste. You coming and flinging around such silly comments, and then accusing others of being idiots or whatever will only serve to give you the reputation of being an idiot yourself.
I love this blog because it gives me the opportunity to sort of "talk shop" with other singers and fans of opera. I'm sure that NONE of us come here to be called stupid, and just as sure that NONE of us enjoy it. So, sit back and try and enjoy yourself...if you can't, well....
Perhaps some therapy?
sugarmezzo
thanks for your thoughtful comments. The way that you expressed your dislike for Steinbeck is a lesson to anyone who wants to discuss works of art. Brava!
I am just tired of being called 'the resident bitch' by people who go nuts over some hut male singer's body...and because I express myself directly. Again, my goal is not to be randomly mean BUT I cannot suffer fools gladly. Thanks for taking the time to communicate with me instead of being passive agressive like "Daniel" who instead of confronting me posts comments to other people here telling them I am a mean bitch and that his intent is to ignore me...and he does not know anything about anything....I mean I know we live in a democratic country and every one should have a voice...but this person's idiocy and self-satisfaction is beyond belief...and evey one here tells me that I have to tolerate that istead of calling him an idiot which he is...do you see where I am coming from?
what is so wrong with with not playing nicey nicey games with people?
dear sugarmezzo--
do you see what I mean about the comments posted by oliviagiovetti and beauboi? I made it entirely clear about what I meant by being a britten fan and beauboy went right back to the surface of his understanding. It takes education and taste to discuss high arts and not everyone is equipped to do it. I am sorry if that ruffles feathers...but many people here are not entitled to any kind of venue to express their opinions...because they know nothing...otherwise eveyone would have a right to express...don't you wonder why the world is in shambles?
when sharon posts, one can almost hear the buzzing of the clippers against her head.....
srsly tho, what kind of elitist trash are you spewing? So is everyone who disagrees with you without qualifying his/or opinion 1000 times and watering it down really "not equipped" to share? Art IS subjective, and cannot be thought of in absolutes, yes, even with geniuses such as britten. You really are some kind of blogger nazi bitch.
What'd I say?
http://cultureonthecheap.wordpress.com
Shame on you scifisci.
I am absolutely thrilled to be seeing Tristan and Grimes this spring. Interesting fact: both roles were Jon Vickers' calling cards, and it's going to be interesting to hear Ben Heppner (Vickers minus the intensity (both vocal and dramatic) plus a few cracky mishaps, but a very lovely instrument). It's going to be interesting to hear Voigt too, considering that a few of the people who reviewed her Vienna Tristan seemed to find her underpowered for the role. I wonder how different she sounds now as Isolde after her surgery. Her Kaiserin in Chicago lacked some of the vocal cholesterol of her earlier years, but she is a very good performer and knows how to manage her vocal resources.
On the other hand, I know I am in for a treat for Peter Grimes considering that I'm seeing Racette, Michaels-Moore, and Griffey with Runnicles conducting.
While I appreciate your sentiments about the world being in a shambles Sharon, everyone SHOULD have a right to express their opinions, especially about art. I'm sorry you don't feel that way.
And to accuse someone of "knowing nothing" when they are expressing their own feelings and opinions and likes and dislikes is exactly what has made people here accuse you of personal attacks. Its pretty personal when someone shares how they feel and you respond by saying that they "know nothing" and don't deserve to have a place to express their opinions.
I am at a loss to see what made you so enraged over the two above comments that you refer to - they said almost the same thing about Britten that I said about Steinbeck. Why don't you try lamenting the fact that they don't seem to understand something you love so dearly? Instead of getting enraged and referring to them as idiots, why can't you find something else that is an honest, truthful response, but shares how YOU feel, instead of pissing all over how THEY feel, and discrediting their opinions as meaningless because (you ASSUME) they are uneducated and have no taste?? Find an example of what makes you love love luuuuuurrrrrve Britten, and share it.
You don't have to play nicey-nicey, and I am ALL for bluntness, but instead of dismissing other people, give an example, and try to change people's minds if it's so bloody important to you. Your passion is admirable. It is your action that is in question.
I agree that much of what has made the world a shambles are the ignorant rantings of stupid and uneducated people, who are ALSO incredibly arrogant (agnorant = someone who is ignorant AND arrogant). But it seems like you are really mad at THOSE people, and should save your steam for them, not for people here who love opera and are just expressing their feelings.
And I agree that it was clique-ish and not very gentlemanlike for the two men in question to have a very public discussion about ignoring you.
But YOU must understand that your feelings of indignant victimization at the hands of people talking about what kind of music and singers they like crosses the line into looking like you have a rage control problem, and is what prompted scifisci's (albeit intolerably rude) comment.
You seem to get very worked up about this, and while I don't think that playing nicey-nicey is necessary all the time, cyber-bullying should be reserved for unhappy middle-aged suburban housewives, and children. Not for "educated" people with "taste".
You seem to take other people's having a different opinion than your own very personally, which must be why you are lashing out with personal attacks of your own. Just because someone doesn't like the same kind of music or singers or whatever as you doesn't mean that they are stupid, uneducated, or attacking you and your passions personally.
I have no idea who you are, I have never met you (maybe) in real life, and I hope you take this in the well-meaning spirit that I present it, but if you are in real-life as you are on this blog, then I agree, you need therapy. It is not healthy to respond to different opinions, and yes, sometimes other people's stupidity, as personal attacks.
Why don't we all just let it go, and start over.
Don't you wonder why the world is in shambles?
I'll wonder no more, because, *obviously*, the source of the world's many woes are that people don't agree with a pompous commenter on an obscure (sorry, La Cieca!) opera blog. [insert a million eye-rolling emoticons here]
So, Sharon, using your "logic", I have a test for your elitist self.
I have 14 audio recordings of Death in Venice, 4 DVD's of various performances, the piano/vocal score, the full score, 2 books dedicated solely to the opera and dozens of program notes and photocopied articles about it from various publications, i.e. I *know* this opera like the back of my hand (it's my 2nd favorite).
So, unless you're able to discuss the merits of all 14 of those audio recordings --surely you have them all, plus a bunch more-- and the DVD's, are able to do an analysis of the harmonic language and orchestration of the score and discuss performance issues in depth (i.e. what, if any, cuts to take etc.), you are unworthy to invoke Baron Britten of Aldeburgh, because to do so would invite charges of hypocrisy and double-standards.
Right?
I am not sure why, but Parterre.com as become a much less enjoyable place of late with this sudden rise in ad hominem attack after ad hominem attack.
What makes it so sad is not that it is merely unpleasant to read, but more importantly that is is intellectually lazy.
I have been coming here since Windows 95 and my brand new Pentium 200 tower. I have laughed and learned here for over a decade, but only now, so late in the day does this site seem to have taken this turn to the vituperative. Yes there was unpleasantness in the past, but the whole tenor of Parterre has now changed.
For myself I follow one rule. Don't write anything I wouldn't say to someone's face. To do otherwise is cowardice.
Oy. End. It. People.
No more challenges of superiority, no more pissing matches, let's make this a nice place to be again, please.
that is fine. I understand and i am not going to post for a while. sorry to have bohtered so many people with my personal style. it will not happen again...maybe?
let me say one thing though....being called elitist on an opera chat site is high praise indeed
And let that be the final word - and a nice finish to that.
FIN
I agree with Sugarmezzo and her most excellent & eloquent post. How did Anna Russell say it? "Analysis given by some great expert for the edification of other great experts"? How incredibly vapid and dull. The reason opera is exciting is because you DON'T have to be a brainiac to love it. And on that note...maybe I'll kill some brain cells with a martini. I'd hate to have enough to make me part of the elite (in spite of me talking like an old man sometimes)...LOL
Cheers from Louisiana Y'all...
Anyone want to talk about Vivica Geneaux's tits?
http://cultureonthecheap.wordpress.com
La Fille du Regiment is still the big winner..Oh my gosh...I hope I did not hurt any one's feelings...so sorry...everyone...I apologize for being a Nazi exlusionary bitch
I would have liked to have "none of the above" as a choice in the poll. Some of the performances may be things I'd be happy to see if I lived in New York, but nothing in the list moves me to want to travel a few hours to get to New York.
As an addendum, let me say that reading the comments in this thread is like overhearing a conversation in a locked psychiatric ward.
I think much of the content and tone of the exchanges above is explicable, and the kind of thing one finds everywhere on the web.
Bothering to put a comment of any length at all, in reasonably accurate prose, is an act of communication that is both an expenditure of some effort, and an assertion and definition of self. It brings with it
(a) territorialism - I am me and am entitled to exist as I see fit
(b) tribalism - I am like you, and not like the others, and one can never be the other
(c) judgemental ego - who do you think you are? (who does he/she think he/she is?)
Musical taste, along with sporting club allegiance, are in general in the C20/C21, the principal non-essential form of cultural identification -- and opera is no exception to that. So opera opinions check all the boxes above in trumps (if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor). This can be expressed in several ways, but direct confrontation and public abuse (like soccer fans in the UK).
The idea of ranking preferences is a bit like a red rag to a bull -- the only question is really how, and with reference to which specific works, the arguments will happen.
I am sure I knew all this when I make my initial posting about "La Fille du Regiment" -- who do they think they are? (I thought to myself). I'll tell them! It was with great satisfaction that I found my opinions rejected and defended by subsequent posters. I was less happy when people forgot me and went on about one another, but I dropped back in from time to time.
For interest, I love Britten, generally like Donizetti and bel canto (especially Rossini), adore Wagner (but less than in the past) and revel in Verdi (especially the early operas). My favourite (male) contemporary singers are: Juan Diego Florez, Jonas Kaufmann, Simon Keenlyside, Dmitri Hvorotovsky, and Ildebrando d'Archangelo (he can sing just fine, but ohhhh - his LOOKS!)
I simply worship Parterre Box ("unnatural acts" are my middle names, and Milton Host is my role model).
So now you can all pull me to pieces.
Hoping I have not by now alienated everyone, I wonder if anyone could offer some help.
I am just fixing up a week's holiday (self-catering apartment) in PRAGUE, in the first week of March. Opera visits planned are "Rusalka" (which is probably permanently in performance!) and "The Greek Passion" by Martinu (which I would guess is not).
What I wonder is, has anyone stayed in Prague, and
(a) are there any areas or streets that one should particularly avoid; or which are especially pleasant?
(b) is there any venue for opera or classical music worth a visit other than the "big" opera houses and symphony concert halls?
(c) any tips generally.
I hope people don't mind me using this thread in this way.
Sugarmezzo - blessed are the peacemakers..... or was it cheesemakers? ;0)
Can I say I love Beethoven - it's just his music that I can't stand!!
Ok - I'm being naughty now.
I know one thing- I love Parterre Box and seeing the HD broadcasts in our movie theatres is wonderful- especially having seen the reactions by you NY folk to the productions and various artists in advance. Suddenly Parterre is even more relevant as we are seeing the artists we seldom get the opportunity to see- so the fun of being "closer to the action" means even more.
Charlie B ... Prague. Avoid Wenceslas Square in the evening. It's not a square, it's just a long and not-all-that-interesting shopping street and seems the centre of gravity for drunken tourists.
There are, however, so many wonderful streets to enjoy - particularly as the older part of Prague is the polar opposite of the grid system. Just keep walking and enjoy getting lost.
In many ways you are best advised to stay with the 3 well-known opera houses and 2 main concert halls. You will find a huge number of concerts advertised in many venues ... but these are 99% "tourist" concerts where the programmes seem to be endless repetitions of Vivaldi's 4 Seasons and Eine kleine Nachtmusik.
The Castle is magnificent - more a mini town than a castle - but it is often heaving with visitors. The "other" castle, Vysehrad, is well worth a trip and is a quiet haven.
Make sure you get a (very cheap) travel card which covers the metro, trams and buses.
Charlie B. -
If you stand on the Old Town Square facing Tyn cathedral, and then follow the street running along the left side of the church, there's this wonderful little neighborhood full of cafes and bookstores. Explore. Go in the morning and sit at one of the cafes and people-watch.
Also, don't miss the Cremeria Milano on Parizska Street. Actually, just don't miss Parizska Street (also in the Old Town), especially if you count "extreme coveting through chic store windows" as one of your hobbies (I certainly do). And the gelato at Milano will definitely soothe that "want the unaffordable couture" ache.
I could go on. Prague is wonderful. Enjoy!
Henry Holland
If you really own that many recordings of Death in Venice, I am shocked that you lashed out at me rahter than the idiot who is not a Britten fan. What is going on here? I changed my mind about not blogging for a while. I think if my voice creates that much of a reaction, then it is needed. In America there is a trend to look down upon intellectualism...look who is president...people here think that if you are smart then you need to dumb down to be socially acceptable...and if you are a woman....well...that is even worse....I have been put down but guys who are old and gay...go back and read the blogs...and they have insulted me because they think I am a woman.
Many people who are art consumers don't have a clue about what they are talking about.
I will not pretend that there should a forum for 'the crowds' to express thier feelings.
Oh Henry- Maaaate ..you tried..so did Sugarmezzo, and beauboi and scifisco and sanford and chaco and others elsewhere... we all tried!
The words of my old grandfather are ringing deafiningly in my ears right now "You wouldn't go into the asylum and argue with them would you?"
I did Grandfather, I did! .. and so did we all. We all tried and tried to be nice...and reasonable.. what else could we do?
We had to at least try it, Grandfather... but clearly nothing is going to work.
The really common part of me is straining to respond with plenty of Aussie vernacular to the wide open statements she has made that are just begging for it- like, "they think I'm a woman"- Oh sharon, you have no idea what answer I'd love to give you for that one- but it would send me to hell.
Suffice to say I don't think there's much doubt. I'm sure most of us have managed to work out that you are in fact a very disturbed young man who hasn't taken his pills- or who hasn't seen the man with the pills just yet. Never mind, now we know your mental status, your remarks will be weighted accordingly, so your brickbats won't be taken too seriously.
Thanks for ignoring me Daniel
Hey Charlie,
You're visiting my second home! I actually have written a few pieces on Prague that you may find helpful, in addition to my website High Culture on a Low Budget (http://cultureonthecheap.wordpress.com).
And I'm going to be lazy and just post the links here rather than re-iterate. In addition, you must go to Betramka (where Mozart would stay while in Prague). They offer some great concerts there. I also highly recommend the marionette theatre version of Don Giovanni for its burlesque humor.
http://gobudgettravel.com/500-getaways/czech-republic-budget-travel-czeching-out-prague-while-keeping-the-koruna-in
http://www.papermag.com/?section=article&parid=2051
http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/index.php?author_name=Olivia%20Giovetti
I'm also a staff member on CosmoTourist, and if you can get through the other stuff I've written about Russia, Italy, UK, etc., I have a chunk of reviews on Praha:
http://www.cosmotourist.com/myct/profile/u/ogiovetti/t/
Enough shameless self promotion there for everyone's tastes?
After listening and seeing the Hansel and Gretel broadcast, I wish City Opera, San Francisco or the MET would do another Christmas Opera Broadcast of a well done Amahl and the Night Visitors. I have 3 nieces that I would love to bring to see it. It seems like a perfect vehicle for even a young artist program. It is short and could easily combined with another comic one act opera. The movie theaters would be packed, not that they aren't already. It would also lovely to see a great production done with an excellent cast and available on video for a nice Holiday present.
Yes I am trying to change the subject. And, hopefully stir peoples minds to come up with a suitable pairing for Amahl. I realize Menotti is not Britten and the MET should do Death and Venice. In fact it would be a perfect vehicle for Anthony Griffey as well as Grimes. I wish they would have them do some of their Wagner, there is such a lyrical sweetness to his voice I would love to hear him sing Walther in Meistersinger. Lohengrin and even Tannhauser. He has the size the voice has great presence? Anyone else a fan?
G
Actually, I'd like to ask a Tannhauser question - the simple and lovely O du mein holder abendstern just makes my heart melt every time I hear it, but I feel like it's never really sung the way it should be. Does anyone have a recording they could recommend?
I saw it at the Met with T Hampson, and I was not excited before the show, and boy was I wrong - he sang it so beautifully I almost cried.
sharon - just stop with your stuck up bulls$#@ already! we know you are stuck-up and we don't need to hear about it anymore. and btw, for better "intellectual" effect you should have said "hoi polloi" instead of "the crowds"
It's interesting to see the way the poll ended up. Is anyone else extremely excited to hear Maazel's walkure? I have a feeling he'll be on his best behavior, given that he hasn't conducted at the MET in decades.
I'm not surprised to see Fille on top, it's a masterwork of simplicity and comedic sensibility. The London production was a smash hit, despite Dessay, who I dislike, so naturally everyone is looking forward to it. Those who can't see the opera as more than just vocal display are sadly missing its brilliance, and how clever this study of innocence and purity of love is.
All geniuses are simple, others create pretentious, inflated works like Tristan or Peter Grimes with great success, so to each his own.
Gianni: Your suggestion that Amahl be done as part of a double-feature at Christmas reminds me of the oft-forgotten fact that the Met used to do Hansel and Gretel with another opera -- Salome!
Sharon: As for your bridling at people's not being fans of Britten, would you not agree that Brahms is a tolerably good composer? Britten was not a fan of his and often said so -- as does Rorem.
Does that make your blood boil?
Actually, I don't really like Brahms either. My response is always, "eh.". Yawn.
If you really own that many recordings of Death in Venice, I am shocked that you lashed out at me rahter than the idiot who is not a Britten fan. What is going on here?
*Sigh* You really are as dense as a molecular cloud in the Crab Nebula, aren't you? Yes, your point was "If you don't like Britten you're a slug", but I was mocking your pseudo-Norman Desmond-ish bullshit about How You Are So Superior To The Peasants, by pointing out that there's *always* someone who's smarter, better informed and more intelligent than you (or I) are, so lay the fuck off the unearned condescension, mkay?
I guarantee, guarantee, I know more about Britten and his music than you do, so according to your "logic", I should look down on you as just another jumped up snob who doesn't know a damn thing about what they're talking about.
But I won't, because I don't take it personally that there are people that think that trivial piffle like La Fille du Regiment is better than Tristan or Peter Grimes, for example.
As for your bridling at people's not being fans of Britten, would you not agree that Brahms is a tolerably good composer? Britten was not a fan of his and often said so -- as does Rorem.
Brahms = third rate Beethoven, in my book, thank Buddah he didn't write an opera! :-) I always like that "composer X likes composer Y, so you should like them too" bit--I get that with Schreker and Schoenberg being big fans of Brahms or basically the whole post-war avant-garde and post-1920's Stravinsky.
Many many thanks to those who have provided such useful tips and links for my forthcoming trip to the land of Suk (and Smetana, Janacek, and Dvorak too, of course -- what did you think I meant [Milton]?) I'm greatly looking forward to my first trip behind what used to be called the Iron Curtain.
It's good you're going now before they switch over to the Euro--which will shoot all those cheap prices way up.
Also, if you want to book tickets in advance, I suggest BohemiaTicket. Good people.
http://cultureonthecheap.wordpress.com
Back to the original topic. I caught Ms. Racette's Ellen Orford a decade ago. I cannot wait to see/hear in this role again. Peter Grimes is one of my favorite Britten pieces. I am predjudiced about the King Arthur (I have a friend involved in the production) but that is another must see for me.
Not to start the Dessay string again, but I won't get a chance to see the Lucia till March. It was one of the "must see" productions in the fall. I have no desire to see the Daughter of the Regiment. And yes, Ms. Dessay is a big reason why. Let's leave it at that. She is a wonderful artist/actress, but my "personal" tastes lie elsewhere.
Chacko did mention that the tone has changed on this site - it has. Most of the vituperative exchanges used to be reserved for our dear old Marschallin. I think that the popularity of this site has attracted a lot of persons of variant tastes & interests - which in my opinion is actually a GOOD thing. Personal attacks is another.