A turkey and some mistletoe
You all remember that new Norma slated for Zurich with Renaaay (and Marcello Giordani, by the way)? Well, La Cieca hears that talks are already in progress to import the show (complete with The Beautiful Druidess) to the Met. The good news is that we'll see the retirement of the "Ping-pong Table Norma" last glimpsed behind Jane Eaglen; the bad news is, well, you know.
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No, darling! The good news is that the Norma won't be Eaglen.
i've never listened to jane eaglen singing live...how does her voice sound like??
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eaglen-big ugly voice rarely on pitch and absolutely no dramatic insight whatsoever. a loud pig. I don't even count the eaglen performance as Norma, I saw Caballe, Scotto and Verrett all do Norma, Eaglen didn't even qualify as a bad Norma, it simply was a disgusting performance.
Of course, Renaay may make Eaglen look good.
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are you KIDDING? You couldn't hear Renee past the 5th row in Traviata - how deluded about her vocal quality is she? And to hear Norma backphrased with no rhythm...
ohhhhhh, the humanity....
It really must be a joke....Zurich is one thing, i mean even cecilia bartoli can be heard there...but the MET?! Good acoustics and all, renee simply does not fill that hall. Her manon was called "underpowered" last year. When was the last time manon could be underpowered, let alone by a singer who expects herself to bring sufficient vocal power to Norma?! I eagerly await those performances, along with what is sure to be a spectacular Armida and i'm sure an eventual Esclarmonde!
Who is a great Norma nowadays? Honestly, I cant think of one. Caballe was my favorite, Callas was a 100th of a behind her and then Drusilla Giannini. Unfortuantely,I never had the chance to hear these ladies sing this role in the theater. Of today's ladies, Fleming would be the least that I would like to hear in Norma.
Maybe be La Cieca is right that she has been blinded by fame and forgotten the long tradition of what rolkes are appropriate in the Bel Canto rep.
I'm sure, MF Tenor, that if you read my other opinions on Norma, the ONE LONE standout singing it currently is Hasmik Papian.....I heard her in Denver, and I felt like I FINALLY heard it sung the way Bellini wouldv'e loved. Despite all the recordings of Sutherland, Callas, Caballe that I've heard, Hasmik has enough dramatic thrust, intensity, and beauty of tone. But of COURSE, the MET doesn't see her as being box office gold like La Fleming, which is angering. The DVD from Nederlanse Opera shows her in prima form for the role, despite the ridiculous staging. And one could archive all the laudatory reviews this diva has had.
I hate to be so cutting, but when Fleming attempts the role, burns herself out, then perhaps we'll be rid of the jazz approach to opera altogether. And it's so sad, as one of the loveliest voices rich in Strauss and Mozart HAS to sing Bel Canto? Even Callas said it's the most difficult repertoire as it's all exposed!
And MF Tenor, in my opinion, Callas was the quintessential Norma, because it was a turn at theater, just not vocal display. THEN Sutherland, because of vocal beauty, then Caballe. Fleming will not even be remotely in this league ever.
Well, I was already wondering why the Zurich Opera would revive Arabella for just 2 performances in June (with Fleming, Hampson and Welser-Moest). But who might be the Adalgisa? Kasarova again, or maybe Eva Mei, who seems to be a particular favorite of our Generalmusikdirektor and gets to sing everything suitable (Violetta, Sandrina) and unsuitable (Vitellia (!), Donna Anna) for her tiny voice. And when is this supposed to happen?
But then it also comes to my mind, that our wonderful Intendant mentioned that Bartoli might sing her first Belcanto opera in Zurich. Obviously he means Donizetti or Bellini. But then, Bartoli would never play second soprano to Fleming.
Lauren Flanigan does a shit-hot Norma. But what are the chances of the Met actually giving her something like that...
Over-bearing Fleming as Norma?
That's a travesty. What's next? Gheorghiu as Aida or Sieglinde?
Speaking of Sieglindes, is she dead? She hasn't written any of her hotly-anticipated blog posts for weeks. I hope everything is fine with her because, in my opinion, she can write far superior and more thought-provoking analysis of operas than Tommasini and Holland and Davis put together.
No one should disparage the Zurich Opera. Many knowledgeable people think that, over the last ten years, the Zurich Opera has become the world's finest house.
It has a serious management, a serious musical staff, a serious program, and a serious audience.
Performances in Zurich are at a much higher level than we ever encounter anywhere here in the U.S.
I wouldn't call Fleming's Manon "underpowered". I had no trouble at all hearing it from the balcony. I did have trouble hearing Gheorghiu's Violetta from the balcony.
i heard fleming live in lucrezia borgia in 1997 at La Scala Milan: the voice was cute but so small!
and nowadays she has lost most of that creamy-like quality and is a little hoarse sometimes...you know: if you insist in forcing your voice into operas which are not suitable for your singing qualities, that happens...
not to speak of her latest concerts in which she perseverates doing "o legere hirondelle" and squeaking everytime on the high picchiettato..bleah!
I'm not about to defend Fleming and I certainly can't see her as a Norma, but I've never felt she was underpowered. Never had a problem hearing her at the Met or elsewhere.
I've already voiced my view that Norma should be given a twenty-year sabbatical around the globe. Let that work regain some respect.
On the other hand, to look at the bright side, it'll be great to have Zajick do her Adalgisa at the Met again including a broadcast. Giordani will probably make a good Pollione. Then add Pape as Oroveso and play the Norma part from a recording and it'll be great.
Jane Eaglen sounds like she's singing with her mouth full of marshmellows. Which, come to think of it, may very well be the case. And her diction is atrocious (coming from someone who speaks neither Italian nor German). Haven't heard much from Ms. Eaglen these days - are they keeping her locked up in the Tower of London?
I must respectfully disagree with you, Thirdboy. Lauren Flannigan sang Norma in Cincinnati several years ago, and her voice does not have the strength or stamina for the part. She is a great singing actress, though. Generally, I have liked her performances.
I can assure you, monkeyboy, that Ms. Eaglen is alive and well and living in Seattle. She is scheduled for Senta in the Seattle Opera "Holländer" next August, which is enough to keep me away... I have to say that in the mid-90's she made her US debut here in Seattle as Norma, and it wasn't half bad. She replaced Carol Vaness on short notice. Since then the voice has gone completely to ruin. I believe that she is NOT a dramatic soprano and should never have sung the hochdramatisch rep. You all will apprectiate this blog entry (I am not the author nor do I know the identity of the blogger, but s/he is spot on where his description of Ms. Eaglen is concerned:
http://www.trrill.com/archives/music/opera/get_the_hell_ou_1/
Incidentally you will all be relieved to know that Ms. Eaglen will NOT be singing Brünnhilde in the 09 Ring in Seattle.
They should let Zajick sing Norma. We all know she could do it.
I heard Fleming in both Arabella from the back of Houston's Wortham Theater and Violetta from the mid orchestra. That's a large-ish hall & I could hear her quite well throughout.
Frankly, the Fleming-bashing on this site is getting VERY boring: enough already. She sells lots of tickets, so she gets lots of gigs. If you don't like her, don't attend her performances.
Frankly, Mikedfw, it's not the voice we don't like about Fleming, it's right now what she DOES with it. We're tired of the travesty...I've never been to a live performance of hers, and quite frankly, I wouldv'e loved it in her earlier years, but not now. There's some of her singing that I DO like, I've bought the Bel Canto album, her Handel Album...BUT...JUST because you can record Casta Diva doesn't make you a NORMA.....
My word is if you don't like the bashing that is on this blog, then don't READ the blog, because if you'd read more, we do just the opposite...we elate!!! But if somebody screws with my favorite opera...sorry, I'll bitch and bash
Said it before, say it again... Renee Fleming possesses a creamy, luscious lyric soprano. She was exquisite as Desdemona and in Mozart. I've heard her live in opera three times (Salome in Herodiade, Alcina, Thais) and once in concert (Vier letzte Lieder and Knoxville). Easily the most impressive foray was the Barber. This was before the mannerisms - pure, heartfelt lyricism with clear diction. Steber would have been proud.
In opera, I've been surprised that the voice was not as large as it seemed on record or TV. It's a lovely lyric soprano but not a true coloratura. Just because your voice can move doesn't mean you must do it regularly in public. As Thais, her fioritura was outshone by that of a supporting soprano (Stacey Tappan) who's true lyric coloratura had a ping and sparkle to the tone - not to mention a seamless line - which Fleming lacked. Thais' lyric lines were lovely but this not a spinto voice. In comparison, I was hearing Hampson live for the first time. Every time he opened his mouth, it seemed like someone had turned on a mic - his voice had greater amplitute than his leading lady.
I agree - Fleming should stay away from Norma. She obviously needs a coach and/or manager who'll strongly guide her decisions. (Can a concert Turandot be down the pike?) She seems to have delusions of being Sutherland. A far better model would be Schwarzkopf. Yes, I know Fleming had a bad experience with Frau Legge and their voices are not similar. What they do share is repertory. I'd rather Fleming hone her career to a few fine roles which she sings better than anyone than flail around as she's doing now.
Maybe Fleming should just plunge into Abigaille and be done with it once and for all.
celtic goddess--welcome back! So very glad to read your input!!
if Fleming is going to sing Norma, why not Gheorgeou (sp?-I never can remember how to spell La Vampira's name!!) as Adalgisa, they could then switch roles midway through the run.
NEVER had a problem hearing Fleming at the Met - Saw Manon, Traviata, Faust and Rusalka and heard every note.
btw what ever happened to Eaglen's husband? Was he vaginally absorbed?
Saw her Isolde at the Met - she was awful - and bigger than the ship.
What ever happened to Eaglen's husband. She ate him!(It started with a BJ and she couldn't stop herself!)
I'm a big fan of Fleming's voice. Never had any problem to hear her even in big rooms with poor accoustic and I do enjoy some risky things she tries. But, unless she gets a great coach or a right conductor, I dont think she should anymore sing bel canto or romantic italian repertoire. In her last CD "poveri fiori" sounds like a vulgar Migenes-Jonhnson and "vissi d'arte" is quite boring with some unforgivable line problems for a studio recording. "Ô légère hirondelle" made me think of a certain "Dance of the Hours " in the Fantasia cartoon with a final note bringing alive F.Foster Jenkins and the Dalibor aria had some weird glottic attacks with hollow sound. But the rest of the album was superb, especially de german rep and the cleopatra aria which i found mesmerizing. She is not anymore the perfectionist she used to be in her first CDs but she still is a great singer.
Paddypig, YOU SO NASTY!!! I love it.
JE's husband is still with us, and he's almost as big as she is. I shudder to think...eesh.
Why not Anderson in Norma? Hell, she's singing it everywhere and quite well. As far as Fleming's voice, I think it's on the smaller side. I have heard her live twice and both times I was disappointed that the voice wasn't a little louder, after all she has sung some relatively large repetoire. Some. If you can't sing Norma loud, shit don't sing it. Norma is a druid high priestess, shouldn't she have this overall intimidating presence that extends itself to the voice. I'm sick at my stomach to think that one of the most beautiful voices isn't going to exist after this. But, someone on here said she has been sounding hoarse and that is not a good thing. Oh well.
MMmmm whenever there is a lull in topics poor ol Rennay gets another beating - so predictable- so boring.
With the greatest of respect Rennay bashers :) - (and now the cabaletta) - say what you like there's none of you who can sing any better than she can and she's rich and famous and your not, nor ever likely to be- so get over it, get a therapist- get a life you poor sad patsys.
Peace and love (and now ducking for cover..hehe)
Alex, I'm doubtful that in the future, Renee will be known as a great singer...she has a lovely voice, is a lovely person to look at, but great? NOT with the decisions she made with her repertoire lately and the lukewarm receptions...which is VERY sad, because I remember her bringing down the HOUSE in a Met gala singing "Depuis le jour"....and I remember watching her in Ghosts of Versailles and being THRILLED at her voice, stage presence...character...BUT, great singers make great decisions, KNOW what they're gifts are/aren't, what role will MAKE them great. Her approach to music these days is way too cutesy, and "look at me!" I know that singers have to strike while the iron is hot, but GREATNESS is growing VERY slowly, gradually into roles that are RIGHT for you. If a great singer like Sutherland who KNOWS her shit tells her NOT to sing the role, but she sings it anyway, guess what Fleming looks like? A voice less greater than Caballe has no business attempting the role.
Daniel, I feel that your post is wrong on a few counts. It is a facile argument for you to say that none of us can sing as well, that is not the point, and besides, how do you know? There are many fine singers (yes, even better than Fleming who are not famous) who may visit this site. Most of us do not care if Ms. Fleming is rich and famous (so is Paris Hilton, and I hope you do not defend that), what we care about is good singing, and at this point in her career Ms. F is not delivering the goods. What she is giving the listening public is an assortment of very bizarre mannerisms which seem only to get worse with the passage of time. We feel tricked and cheated. These mannerisms call into question her taste level, intelligence, and whether she has bought into the hype that surrounds her and will accept no direction or constructive criticism because she is, after all, the "Beautiful Voice". In interviews she does come off as having a bit of an attitude and a chip on her shoulder and lacking any sense of humor. We all want our divas to be grand, but please, back it up with something of real artistic merit (which is of course, subjective).
mdolb of course you are right. My post was written late on a Saturday night after a friend had been over and we had been indulging in a few "sherberts." Inasmuch as what I wrote was a bit silly- if you go over the posts of many months we have been over and over the same ol crap regarding Miss Flemming ad nauseum- indeed theres nothing new - even in what you have just written now that hasn't already been said ten times over.
Let's be honest- it really doesn't matter what people say in here as long as its interesting and entertaining - and I do love it all - but this Flemming thing by anyone's stretch has surely become just plain boring. Can't we slaughter someone else for fun for a change?
Miss Flemming is certainly not the worst singer in the world by a long stretch.
Come on you guys, that's enough Renee-bashing...
How about a little joke to change the subject? Here goes...
What's green and sings?
Renee Phlegm
sorry...
Dear Daniel. I agree that it is tiresome to berate Ms. F as much as we do and I am all for slaughtering someone else (Bartoli for a start...too easy?) but as a person who has played in the band behind both of these woman, I sit and scratch my shiny bald head and ask myself, what am I missing because I can't abide their style or voices and I seem to be in a small minority.
My best friend can't stand Bartoli for no other reason than the rubber faces. I just wish she'd do something with that hair! - but you don't like the voice?
Daniel --we can try bashing Cheryl Studer and see if we can resurrect Marschallin.
Funny you should say that winpal. I was only thinking about that last night after hearing a very interesting rave about la Studer on the radio. A well known and credible commentator was saying how incredible it was that she made so many excellent full opera recordings in a very short space of time - then had the voice trouble then some drama with (I forget who with) and then suddenly retired. The details of the particular drama are apparently still under wraps and no one knows exactly what went happened although there was speculation.
Certainly the commentator was much in awe of her, pointing out the "range" of her roles etc.
Naturally it brought Marshy to mind. I wonder if someone killed her?
I hope not although she did drive everyone mad with her "unidirectional characteristics". :)
At this point in her career, it seems that Renee's gonna do whatever she wants. If you like it fine, if you don't, no one is forced to listen. And a lot of people do seem to like it.
As far as her interviews, mdolb, to me she comes across as a very down to earth person with a good sense of humor, especially about herself.
I agree. I think part of the reason why Renee is so famous is that people identify her as a very down-to-earth person who doesn't buy into a larger than life diva attitude. I know that is the reason I like her. I can't help but sympathize with her b/c she seems like she's gone through a lot to become La Renee. I mean, did you read her book?
While still on the subject of Renee's choice of dramatic roles, is anyone able to comment on her live singing of the Verdi Requiem? I've heard her live in the first run of Rodelinda (my first and only Met performance so far); small voice with a creamy sweet sound but its Handel after all. How does she bring up the extra volume for the Libera Me?
she doesn't - but years ago, before her teacher died and she became the queen of mannerisms, she was able to bring an intensity to the Libera Me by really bringing out the words, and of course the floated top notes were fantastic elsewhere. It's a shame her voice and performance quality have deteriorated since then.
in europe, there are a couple of ladies that are doing norma to good acclaim, incl. theodossiu and coelho. isn't gruberova still singing this role? also, recently some 3 Gs attempted norma: guleghina, goerke and gorchakova, with varying degrees of success.
You obviously never met Brian -- Eaglen's husband -- he's about 6'6" and is much bigger than she is. If anything, he ate her!
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